Shaping beer can aluminum

[Kittyhawk]

I apologise if this is in the wrong section.
Attached a plan for a Sopwith Camel, the next project in the aircraftery.

The nose of the Camel was made of unpainted aluminium. It would be so simple to turn it up from wood on the lathe and paint it with silver paint, but it would always look like what it is - silver painted wood. I would like to lathe a wooden plug and then overlay it with aluminium from a drink can - about 0.2mm thick I think. I have never done anything like this before and don't even know if its possible to cold form aluminium. The obvious thing us to try it and see but any advise before I start would be appreciated.

 

[Inspector]

What you are looking for is metal spinning. Basically spinning a form and disc of metal in a lathe and with polished tipped tools on the rest pressing the metal onto the form as it spins. If you don’t have a lathe you could probably rig up something using a drill press or a drill clamped to a bench.

Pete

 

[Kittyhawk]

What you are looking for is metal spinning. Basically spinning a form and disc of metal in a lathe and with polished tipped tools on the rest pressing the metal onto the form as it spins. If you don’t have a lathe you could probably rig up something using a drill press or a drill clamped to a bench.

Pete

Thank you, I would not have thought of that. My home made lathe will be able to do the business ok. It has a shaft speed of 2200rpm. Would that be in the ballpark?

 

[TheTiddles]

You might be able to just dap it in using a block with a dimple in and a dowel with a rounded end.

If you have a go at spinning mind your fingers, I’ve seen some horrendous injuries from the edges (think exposed bacon slicer)

 

[Kittyhawk]

If you have a go at spinning mind your fingers, I’ve seen some horrendous injuries from the edges (think exposed bacon slicer)

Originally I thought tapping it into shape might work but doodling with a pencil, I think I can design a plug and tool for the lathe that would keep my tender bits clear of the work. I take your point about the dangers of a thin spinning disc. Hopefully there will be something to show in a couple of days, all going well.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

People like to make solid aluminium out of tin foil (except it's aluminium foil, obviously). Would that be an option? I've never tried it. I only use it to make hats.

 

[Rorschach]

Should be doable but be prepared to try it several times. Drink can aluminium is quite hard from the forming process so annealing it would be very helpful.
Colour in the aluminium with a fat black sharpie marker and heat it with a blowtorch until the sharpie marks disappear or turn a sort of translucent pale yellow, you will have reached annealing temp. Let it cool and then it will be more more malleable for shaping.

 

[Inspector]

I have no idea what speeds are used as I have never done it myself. Do search for metal spinning on wood lathe or variations and you should find what you need. There is lots on YouTube.

Rorschach is correct with the need to anneal the metal if it work hardens. Pewter apparently doesn't work harden so you could sacrifice your tankard to the cause.

Pete

 

[Rorschach]

I have no idea what speeds are used as I have never done it myself. Do search for metal spinning on wood lathe or variations and you should find what you need. There is lots on YouTube.

Rorschach is correct with the need to anneal the metal if it work hardens. Pewter apparently doesn't work harden so you could sacrifice your tankard to the cause.

Pete

I wonder if pewter suffers from the same problem as lead when "forging" it, i.e the oxide layer forms so quickly you get a flaky pastry effect.

 

[Johnccc]

Not sure if they would be large enough but the lead like covering on the top of a bottle of wine might work. Bonus being you may have to go through a few bottles to get it right.

 

[baldkev]

Lead, as above. People cast fishing weights etc in sand formers. Make a wooden one, mix sand and pva, stuff the wooden plug into sand and pva ( sounds like it might work ), let set...... remove plug and you have a former... hopefully

 

[baldkev]

P.s theres plenty of lead on churches
I am of course kidding

 

[MARK.B.]

Do people still use lead weights for sea fishing or are they now frowned upon

 

[Kittyhawk]

Annealing - another thing that's never crossed the dusty recesses of my mind.
I'm getting really enthused now to try this aluminium spinning business on the Camel engine cowling.
Thank you all for the good advice. Since I sell my aeroplane models I am starting to think I should be paying consultants fees....

Should be doable but be prepared to try it several times. Drink can aluminium is quite hard from the forming process so annealing it would be very helpful.
Colour in the aluminium with a fat black sharpie marker and heat it with a blowtorch until the sharpie marks disappear or turn a sort of translucent pale yellow, you will have reached annealing temp. Let it cool and then it will be more more malleable for shaping.

 

[Yojevol]

Annealing - another thing that's never crossed the dusty recesses of my mind.
I'm getting really enthused now to try this aluminium spinning business on the Camel engine cowling.
Thank you all for the good advice. Since I sell my aeroplane models I am starting to think I should be paying consultants fees....

This idea got me intrigued as I knew that most aluminium, or at at least what we refer to as aluminium, is in fact an alloy, There are many grades to give various characteristics. I've had a roll of pure al sheet in my scrap box for years. It is soft and malleable. I think it was a leftover from a flashing job. It is available as Grade 1050 but is probably difficult to get in small quantities.
On the other hand, beer cans are made from a 3000 series grade which seems to impossible to buy but is freely available in small quantities. Cans are punched out of a solid billet and the resulting sidewall thickness is very thin to be economic. However the base needs more rigidity so is thicker. So annealed can base may be the best bet.
A completely different approach might be the use of Silver Leaf which may have possibilities for other metallic items on your beautiful models.
Brian

 

[Kittyhawk]

This is a pic of the Sopwith Camel engine cowling, diameter 35mm.

With the exception of the rebated bit on the end the rest was to be sheathed in beer can aluminium. Cut alloy discs were 60mm dia and sandwiched between the end and a wooden plug. Turning speed was 2200rpm which is the recommended speed. The alloy could make the turn OK but it would fly to bits when trying to run it up the sides. Presumably too much aluminium to be compressed into too small a space.
So after four attempts its onto Plan B, whatever that may be, mainly because I'm a one can man and after four cans of beer I'm starting to feel a bit ill.

 

[novocaine]

drinks can is way to thin for spinning, not to mention it's already been drawn which will weaken it further for spinning (you can anneal it but it will still be rather thin). You want something more in the realms of 0.5mm thick which will reduce in thickness to around 0.3mm after forming I'd have thought.

Rather than spinning you could hand form it with a hammer and plug, again, it needs to be thicker to start with as you will thin it out as it forms to shape.

 

[Gerry]

You probably need to try and find some Litho Plate which is commonly used for scale modelling detailing. It's aluminium sheet usually aroud 0.2mm thick. Try googling litho plate and scale model. I don't know where you will get it from nowadays but we used to be able to walk into the local printers and ask for scraps. You could try Ebay.
You will definately need to anneal it, possibly more than once as you work it. Rub a bar of plain soap on it then heat it until the soap turns black.

Gerry

 

[johnnyb]

a mate brought me this from Belgium it's african work.(THE CHRISTMAS I GAVE UP SMOKING!)

 

[AES]

I have actually shaped an ali drinks can, back in my own aeromodelling days, but as said above, litho plate is better. In both cases, again as already said above, annealing is the answer. As well as the black felt tip pen temperature indicator above, a smear of soap does just as well - heat until it turns a dull brown.

I've never tried spinning, just hand pressure plus hammer forming (light taps) over a wooden mandrel of the required shape. Also as already said, drinks cans are VERY thin, except at the bottom. In my case I've sometimes needed 2 goes to get exactly what I wanted, it's a bit of a knack which in my case anyway, needed a bit of practice.

If you're in no big hurry drop me a PM with the (developed) size of the cowling and I'll send you a piece of litho plate to suit. My modelling days are pretty much over so foresee no use for it, it's only there now "just in case" (I kept crashing models because as soon as I look up to the sky and loose the horizon I loose my balance and fall over). NOT conducive to keeping a model under control!