scratch stock - in the rough

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Well here we are then, an image of my scratch stock, as you can see it's nowt but a bit of stick really. The blade is piece of the bandsaw blade that condeesteso kindly sent and seems to work well. I tried it this afternoon and came to some conclusions.

Working cross-grain in mahogany a sealer of some sort is almost essential. My choice would be shellac based, mainly for the quick drying but it might also have something to do with the smell :) I found it necessary to renew the sealer just as soon as the scratch had gone through the sealed layer.

Strangely the shellac sealer had a pronouced effect even if I carried on scratching before it was quite dry.

Leaning the blade forwards of square to the surface reduced tear out, to such an extent that I would consider forming the blade to give correct the profile when working at an angle.

Cross grain there were no little curls of wood, just dust really. A small pointed object was handy to clean this away from the blade. A Stanley craft knife worked well.

A light touch was essential.

It is probably a good idea to make sure no neighbours are around when you cheer with joy as you find success. :oops:

Thanks condeesteso for sending the blades to urge me on. I hope these findings are a help.

xy
 

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I like that holder design, the problem I found with mine was that it was bloomin' hard on the hands. I only cut 100mm or so as a test and I was already looking for the gloves.
 
Thanks wobbly, a very basic design, but this is to work on a curved surface and I could not quite figure out just how to organise fences etc.. Perhaps what you have not seen is the angle of the 'stock' in the area of the blade. This is to get around a non-square frame edge. Definately non standard. That being so it seemed silly to spend time maikng a more versatile blade holder. I can see me making a stock along the lines of condeesteso's Wickes modification. They are useful, Wickes that is, afterall.

Ther is a little slippage of the blade, slot slightly too wide, and I will be adding another screw to the right of the blade.

xy
 
Hi Wobbly and xy - pleased the blades are working out fine. We are all finding almost exactly the same results and issues I think. I have been using sanding sealer (Liberon) - I assume it is shellac based, thin and dries v quick. I'm not at all expert on shellacs - when someone mentions a 4 pound cut, I am expecting a very large bag of Pablo's finest :)
Blade angle seems important, and very forward with light cut helps generally I found. That was where the routed chamfers on the stem came from. I find the stem very handy as I hold that with left hand to pull the fence to the stock - accurate tracking being a must - especially when cutting the slot for stringing say.
Still have the top of bead crumbling a bit, but it's getting closer, and the last attempt was after I had formed the bead on the bad oak, so blade maybe needed a new hone. (Bad oak is some scrap I have left from the wshop build 4 years ago - it was green structural, now dry, and has awful grain - treats most blades with contempt.)
Main thing is I am now happy this can be done (by me I mean, it has obviously been done in years gone by as many a fine piece of furniture will witness).
On depth stop, I have blunt shoulders on the string blade, which act as depth stop. On bead cutter, I resort to the traditional method - I stop cutting when I reach the correct depth ;)
Having spent too long making a pretty Garrett Hack - style stock, I have no intention of making anything else along these lines just now, as the Wickes Mk1 works fine (and my fancy wenge/maple item will probably gather dust).

Here's the story so far:
 

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Very impressive work. Your latest beads are within a torn out fibres breadth of perfection (sorry for the really bad pun). The string is looking spot on though, I'd be really chuffed with that.

Like you and xy I noticed the tool cut a lot better on the push when tipped forward and that got me thinking, in use it's a lot like a scraper so what if I ran a piece of hardened steel carefully around the edge of the cutter to try and make a tiny burr. I've only given it a quick try before work this morning but I'm inclined to say that the cutting action has improved. Interestingly the cutting action seems to have improved most on the beads as they correspond with the easiest areas to put a burr on the cutter. The flat areas of the cutter are essentially impossible to burr due to their size but I find they cut well anyway. Might try experimenting more later.
 
That is tremendous work condeesteso, I am particularly impressed with the stringing. Was that with 'spurs' on the cutter? This shaping of small cutters is testing out my needle files, and glasses. The glasses are easy to sort the needle files less so, does anyone know where I can buy needle files in ones. The sets are often only half used, and of poor quality.

The bead is interesting, I can see why they break away at the crest. When I get back to mine I must try more sealer. One distinct advantage of working cross grain is that the sealer soaks along the grain of the bead, and may give more support. What I don't know yet is how much effect all this shellac sealer will have on subsequent finishing.

Wobbly, that idea of using a scraper edge sounds interesting, do mind if I give it a try?

xy
 
Be my guest xy, I've got a mountain of work to do so I may not get round to trying it any time soon.

As for files I just bought a set of 10 from ToolStation. They were unbelievably cheap (2.99 IIRC) but the quality seems to be pretty good. At that sort of price though if they go blunt after a few uses I don't really care.
 
I think that files should be treated with the same viewpoint as plane irons.

We don't get the "cheese" type irons because they may work once but then...we would need to throw them away.

Files however, I think because the little cutting edges are so darn small...get used to oblivion and back...and most are generally only good for one outing.

Nicholson files are darn good...Vallorbe...well...they are special...and I think you will find that if you only use certain ones...(as you are finding you do)...just buying those singles will work out far greater value for money than a cheaper set.

This Stubb Set (long out of business) are really great value for money...I have ordered a set myself!!!!!

I was looking for Stubbs ones as I used to use these at work. If you clean out the files after each use...particularly using on non-ferrous metals...then they should last ages.

Using a quality file from a good maker is like using a quality plane after using a Handyman for years....

Jim
 
Thanks wobbly, I'll certainly try the scraper on my next profile. I think I have this one just right so I'm loathe to fiddle.

Jim, you are absolutely right, I've just found this company. http://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/6/1078/1595.aspx. I almost wish I hadn't. The range is incredible. I will look into the Stubb' s set. I once met a guy who had trained as a sticher at Stubbs, fascinating.

xy
 
Woah! thank you but... it's not bad, getting there, there are issues that the pics don't show clearly, but most of that is me controlling the tool - i.e. tracking. I have more to play with on this but the shellac is helping (even a second etc wipe). I gather you can wash it mostly away after (meths??).
XY - no, I never tried the spur idea, started with cutter square and it worked oK so stuck with that. Drawing an edge (as on a scraper) may be v good. It leads to the idea of a one sided blade, pull or push only, and work from other end of stock as necessary.
Interesting I am using this pulling as I feel it is under more control. Whatever works is good I reckon.
FILES - hey Jim, you just hit my new topic / issue. I found some Nicholsons in the local hardware store (one of the last proper ones around I fear) - about 6" long and around £4 each. What a difference. I need the needles to do the finer shaping, but these Nicholsons slice away the cutter stock lovely. Will definitely check the Stubbs, but may well be back in the hardware shop to gather a few more, they are so good, and I agree about just getting the shapes I actually use.
More news as and if I have any!!
 
Hi Guys..

Managed to nearly put myself back into hospital yesterday...silly me! Those castings on old American sanders are deceivingly heavy! I was therefore in Annie's bad books and banished to the bench with the scratch stock where I could do no harm!

But...I had a think in doing this...and looked at the blade you gave me Douglas....and noted that it was very blunt even after only working on the soft pine. So...I fettled it back to pointy and then heated just the tips over a gas flame to red heat and then plunged in the chip frier (don't tell Annie! :oops: ) and thus hardened the steel.

I then tested it on my ever-suffering piece of mahogany...prepared as a square edge for the purpose...and the difference was astounding....

DSC_0047.JPG


I only had an inch to play with but even on end-grain it whizzed through!

I am off to make a banding stringing profile and have a play this afternoon...but I did get Annie to assemble the belt sander first! (see Walker Turner thread!)

The Stubbs files should arrive today with any luck...more on that later!

UPDATE EDIT

Yes...they arrived and what a bargain at £18!!!

DSC_0063.JPG


The set of needles

DSC_0064.JPG


...and the mid-sized ones...

DSC_0065.JPG


Well worth the money...

Cheers guys!

Jim
 
condeesteso":37fcyuml said:
Drawing an edge (as on a scraper) may be v good. It leads to the idea of a one sided blade, pull or push only, and work from other end of stock as necessary.

Many scraper blades are way to complex, and small, to be burnished. It's also very helpful (on dodgy grain) to have a free choice of cutting direction.

Just file 'em straight across, and stone them if you have small and fine enough slips. You trying to make a perfect cutting edge, albeit with a bevel of 90 degrees.

BugBear
 
Thanks for that tip on the files Jimi - I saw it in time to order a set. I think you should be on commission - unless this seller who happens to have a warehouse full of old stuff is someone with a weakness for infills, exotic timbers and old american power sanders!
 
My Stubbs needles are on the way too. Interesting re heat-treating the scratch blades - makes sense so I suppose I need to try it. I'll get over soon and have a look. Didn't see the mid-size files, need those too !!
Re burnishing, understood and agreed... I have found I now use it pulling only (better control for me) so I may try it anyway - just to report back a failure. For me this is all an experiment, what doesn't work often tells me more than what does work. I mean if it works well then you don't learn what made it work.
Jim - next time you need something shifting, happy to help - be careful for a while.
 
Jimi, that is a good tip on the hardening, now where does swimbo hide the chip pan?

I tried a scraper edge on the blade, basically although it worked it made re-honing more difficult. As bugbear says a square edge worked as well, and bi- directional, and was easier to 'sharpen up'. I did find that the angle of 'lean' with a scraper edge was more specific, in that it didn't work as well over a range of angles.

xy
 
Glad so many people picked up the tip on the Stubbs files...they really are a bargain at that price...and no..I have no connection with the seller other than recognising a bargain when I see one.

A set like that would set you back over £40 usually!

There are no rounds in my "set" but I have some excellent Bedfords which I picked up at a bootfair for 50p each and they are superb as they taper to a point in two sizes so they are fit for most jobs.

I wouldn't bother with burnishing either...just file across at 90 degrees...and harden. You can anneal the blade the same way when you need to or just make another one. So far after a fair workout...the tip is still sharp and it still cuts beautifully.

Jim
 
condeesteso":l6ab6i3v said:
that's a cracking profile on the end grain by the way! - need to try the chip-pan technique.

I was really surprised actually Douglas...as the results on the pine did not come out nearly as well before hardening.

I'm not sure that the old traditional way was to harden but it certainly worked. It came out of realisation that the blade material was quite soft and the really sharp tip you gave it to me as was actually rounded over after a while and this was visible...not just a feel test.

Oh...and thanks for the offer to help lift heavy stuff mate...I appreciate that...but I think I am done moving big stuff for the moment...just the sander to move from the garden to the workshop but I will disassemble it for that.

Jim
 
Yes, forgotten most of my metallurgy, but there's enough carbon in that stuff to harden v well - as the blade tips bear witness. Will make sense on the string cutter as re-honing will remove some stock and hence take it undersize in no time. Set aside for the moment though as I have a wee pile of ash to prep and stack :)
 
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