Saw sharpening

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newt

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Following Alf's lesson at the bash, I have become addicted to sharpening saws (she did give a warning). I have now done 9 back saws both cross cut and rip from 20tpi to 12 tpi. My farther left me 6 old saws that were rusting away in an old ammunition box in the garden shed. I de-rusted them all using the green hammerite gel, removed the handels, and removed what varnish was still on them. On one saw all the teeth except for 3 were missing so after filing the blade flat ( sort of joining) I made up a paper template and made pencil marks and assumed a TPI of 12. I stuck it on the blade and used this as a reference to make a small v with the file. I then continued back and forth each side until a rip form was produced using a 4 degree rake. It cuts a real treat although a little hard to start.
I found that you need to be real careful with filing cross cut to maintain the rake and fleam. Alf was right about the files I bought several from classic tools they do wear out quite quick. I even went and bought a LN dovetail saw (now completely addicted) it is ok, surprisingly 3 teeth were over set but when I put that right it tracks perfectly, however it does not cut any quicker that the refurbished saws but it does feel nicely balanced in the hand.
My wife finds it difficult to understand why I now have so many saws. One thing she did say which was of course a joke (I think) "I suppose I should not use that LN saw for cutting any tree roots", I said it would not be any use because it is for ripping not for X cut, she seemed confused. One last thing before you drop off, a rip at 4 degrees seems to X cut nearly as well as a real X cut, but the Xcut does not do as well ripping particularly in hardwood, interesting.
 
newt":zpc6th93 said:
Following Alf's lesson at the bash, I have become addicted to sharpening saws (she did give a warning). I have now done 9 back saws both cross cut and rip from 20tpi to 12 tpi.

Blimey, Newt, you're really hooked :shock: After reading your story I'm not sure whether I should start this sharpening lark :wink:

Paul
 
Newt

Have you ever read The Seven Essentials of Woodworking (ISN 0-8069-2527-2) by Anthony Guidice? It's well worth it because Mr Guidice has a great deal of practical experience and wisdom. However, he's also very outspoken and doesn't have a good word to say about English/American style panel saws or back saws. For Mr Guidice, the only saw worth having is a German style bow saw.

But here's the interesting thing - he says the rip tooth configuration is the only one you need if dealing with properly dried and seasoned timber. Frankly, I didn't believe this but I refiled my tenon saw to a rip tooth and tried it out for cutting across the grain. Lo and behold, he was right - it works!

It doesn't feel quite as smooth as a proper crosscut but it's a damn sight better than trying to use a crosscut for ripping. This seems to be one of the least known facts in woodworking!

Regards.
 
Evergreen, thanks for the reply I was wodering when someone would pick up on this subject. It does make you wonder if there are significant benifits with the cross cut, the only slight differences I can detect are, smoother start and the cut face has a slightly finer finish. I gather that X cuts with a fleam of greater than 15 degrees wear out quicker. I guess for cutting tenions the X cut would be the choice but there is not much in it.
 
Evergreen":17sn3lzm said:
This seems to be one of the least known facts in woodworking!
Au contraire - 'tis much debated. Much, much debated. Often. Oh so often... You know tails first vs. pins? Like that in some circles... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf
 
Evergreen":vb5npzua said:
For Mr Guidice, the only saw worth having is a German style bow saw.

maybe he is of italian immigrant origin and his papa and grandpapa used a frame saw in the old country?? I believe there just as common in Poland, France, Italy etc as in Germany. I wonder if Franz Kluaus has a frame saw in his workshop some place, I think he is from HUngary?

I made a bow saw several years ago from a strip of diston steel and odds and ends of beech. It cuts just as fast as a shark pull saw. I had to learn to let the saw do the work (not over steering) otherwise it wandrs a bit. That was a 6 point cross cut, perhaps I'll make a big 30" 3 point rip bow saw for timber framing dutys and see how it hanldes cross cutting :wink:

A joiner once told me he set and sharpened his saws at a compromise between rip and cross whatever that was 8-[ , I forgot the details now, but he generally knew exactly what he was taliking about. Twas he that got me started with saw sharpening :-s
 
Mr. Spanton.
FWIW here in Eastern Europe bow saws do seem to be the main saw used, at least with the older woodies. In our barn, hidden under tons of hay and other junk I found several, the largest being about a metre in length.

They need a bit of restoration but from your comments I guess I would be best keeping them.
 
mr spanton":3kzu4zbk said:
Evergreen":3kzu4zbk said:
For Mr Guidice, the only saw worth having is a German style bow saw.

maybe he is of italian immigrant origin and his papa and grandpapa used a frame saw in the old country??
I believe it's 'cos he's a disciple of Tage Frid more than anything. To be honest I have incredible difficulty in taking any notice of anyone who dismisses all non-frame Western saws out of hand. Says to me he's never used a sharp one... :D

Cheers, Alf
 
Sure, Mr Guidice takes no prisoners on the subject of saws, fettling planes and a few other things. But that's what makes him different and interesting. I'd just like to see him saw up a really big sheet of, shall we say chipboard? with a bow saw....!

Regards.
 
well presumably that would be a two hander though????

years ago, i found a place in wales they call "jerusalem"
which was an old slate finishing factory, very run down,
but the saw pit was a sight to see.

guess that's where they put the apprentice :twisted: :lol:

pretty sure that they used bow saws in the old days,
also we used to use them in the stone business.

paul :wink:
 
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