saw sharpening help

[simocco]

Hi

I have an old Tyzack tennon saw, it is 17 teeth per 25.4mm, i have a set of needle files, will these do for sharpening? or do i need a specialist saw sharpening file? also how do i know what angle the teeth are at (fleam?)

thanks

Simon

 

[bugbear]

Hi

I have an old Tyzack tennon saw, it is 17 teeth per 25.4mm, i have a set of needle files, will these do for sharpening? or do i need a specialist saw sharpening file? also how do i know what angle the teeth are at (fleam?)

thanks

Simon

Sharpening such a saw crosscut is about the hardest saw sharpening there is IME.

If you're not pretty damn experienced on easier saws, I wouldn't even try it.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If you haven't sharpened a saw before, then bugbear's right. Try a rip saw first, preferably one with large teeth.

The needle file will just about do, but a 4" slim taper sawfile would be better - the usual 'rule of thumb' on sawfiles is to use one with sides twice as long as the teeth are deep, so you can use all three corners and get even wear all round (if you use a smaller file, you'll blunt two sides and leave one untouched, which is a waste). Sawfiles wear out quite quickly, especially on older saws - saw steel is hard stuff on files.

Suggest a search on Youtube for 'saw sharpening'. There's a good three-parter by Matthew of Workshop Heaven fame that covers the process (kit required, angles, procedure) very well. It might also be worth getting a cheap saw off Ebay or from a car boot sale to practice on before having a go at the Tyzack.

 

[pedder]

Hi

I have an old Tyzack tennon saw, it is 17 teeth per 25.4mm, i have a set of needle files, will these do for sharpening? or do i need a specialist saw sharpening file? also how do i know what angle the teeth are at (fleam?)

thanks

Simon

Hi Simon,

just to answer the questions: A needlefile will fit perfectliy.
Tenon saws are usually filed at 0° fleam because tenons are rip cuts. At 17 tpi a rip cutting saw is crosscutting quite well if you alter the rake to 10° to 15°.

Train filing at the last few inches under the handel, if you mess them up it is not that bad because they don't see much use. Start slow with short strokes and only one stroke per gullet. If you mess her up, I will help.

Just to put tht straight: I do a lot of warming up filing and than have a break for the eyes before I file a 17 tpi crosscut. That is not easy.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[simocco]

Thanks for the advice, the saw belonged to my grandfather or even his father, so i think ill look out for a practise saw first before i mess up!

 

[bugbear]

Tenon saws are usually filed at 0° fleam because tenons are rip cuts.

You are (of course, and as usual) absolutely right.

However, outside the world of saw specialists and/or enthusiasts (a world I am proud to be part of), "tenon saw" is often used in the more general sense of "medium sized back saw", as opposed to the more specific "saw used to cut tenons".

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Many years ago I re-sharpened a tenon saw/medium sized back saw/bitey toothed thing with a needle file just by studying the tooth shape and seeing how the file fitted into the gaps.

Now I know about rake and fleam and gullets, but I didn't need to, to sharpen the saw.

So have a good look and see how the saw works and how to file the teeth, you can do things without knowing the technicalities behind it.

Pete

 

[simocco]

Hi,

.....just by studying the tooth shape and seeing how the file fitted into the gaps.

.....
So have a good look and see how the saw works and how to file the teeth, you can do things without knowing the technicalities behind it.

Pete

cheers pete, perhaps a good closeup with some kinda magnification would help!

 

[pedder]

However, outside the world of saw specialists and/or enthusiasts (a world I am proud to be part of), "tenon saw" is often used in the more general sense of "medium sized back saw", as opposed to the more specific "saw used to cut tenons".

BugBear

I know, Paul, because I visit UK ebay from time to time - tenant saw is my favorite term. The description 17 tpi let me wonder if it isn't a dovetail saw, but that are only words.

At 17 tpi I think a saw should be filed at 0° fleam unless you do some very fine work in some very soft wood.

Everyone who tried, will confirm that filing crosscut finer than 16 tpi is a major PITA.

Cheers
Pedder