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saw sharpening - files from Axminster

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MikeW

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Hi BB,

Just a fwiw, the files from LN are Grobet, the files from Pete Taran are Bahco. Great sizes and small gullet radius.

I haven't measured the difference, if there is any it is small.

The Nicholsons I get are from a local hardware store. They too are good, but the local store only stocks down to a 5" X-slim.

Here's a graphic at LN site. They sell all the files for what I consider a good price considering they are Grobet.



Pete also has the same sizes in the Bahco brand. I heartily recommend either.

It is a pity decent files (of any kind) have gotten so difficult to obtain. But the point here is that maybe the vendors who are selling LN tools there in the UK could be encouraged to stock some saw files?

Take care, Mike
 

Alf

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MikeW":2yhimm96 said:
But the point here is that maybe the vendors who are selling LN tools there in the UK could be encouraged to stock some saw files?
I think Mike Hancock might be the best bet. :-k

Thanks for the info, BB. Bit disappointing though. :?

Cheers, Alf
 

bugbear

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Just a fwiw, the files from LN are Grobet
Searchy, searchy.

The world just keeps getting interesting:

http://www.fine-tools.com/feile2.htm

The precicion files made by VALLORBE GROBET
http://www.patienceandnicholson.co.nz/files.html

VALLORBE SWISS
An imported range of Engineers files from Vallorbe. Vallorbe is an industrial region in Switzerland famous for iron foundries and tool producers since the 16th century. Vallorbe is also the world renowned brand name for files produced by Usines Metallurgiques de Vallorbe.

This company, made up of Grobet, Glardon and Borloz, the three principal manufacturers in the region at that time, was formed in 1899 to expand their sales of files well beyond the Swiss border. The new company zealously guarded their technology, trademarks and traditions.
So it appears that Vallorbe and Grobet (as companies) merged a long time ago, and perhaps use "Grobet" and "Vallorbe" as brands, in the same way that upmarket Fords are called Jaguar and Volvo.

And indeed upmarket Falcon bicycles are called "Claud Butler".

BugBear (who owns a Claud Butler made the Claud Butler company)
 

MikeW

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Hi BB,

And perhaps another interesting tidbit is, does Grobet make the files sold in the US at their Wyoming plant?

Well, maybe not interesting. And then, where do they source the steel for the files. Too much thinking on my part. Whoever/whereever they are made, decent files.

Of course, if you are very careful, you could always use 3-square files for the ultimate in small gullets. Only drawback I've heard is the lack of a radius possibly can result in cracks--a radiused corner being more likely to relieve the stress on the metal.

But I don't know. Seems the problem can be resolved by using a smaller file than one would otherwise use. The corner radius on the smaller file being, well, smaller.

Take care, Mike
 

bugbear

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MikeW":2fgby446 said:
Hi BB,

And perhaps another interesting tidbit is, does Grobet make the files sold in the US at their Wyoming plant?

Well, maybe not interesting. And then, where do they source the steel for the files.
With modern metallurgical analysis, I wouldn't worry about the "where". This mattered in the old days, since ores from various countries had various chemicals which affected matters. We control steel production a little differently now ;-)

But I don't know. Seems the problem can be resolved by using a smaller file than one would otherwise use. The corner radius on the smaller file being, well, smaller.

Take care, Mike
That would trade one problem for another. To get economic use from your files, it is desirable that the edge of the file be a little more than twice the side of a tooth.

Nicely illustrated by the Norse Woodsmith:

http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/ww/sawbas ... wfiles.gif

BugBear
 

Scrit

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Bugbear

Any comments about the other American saw file makes, Simmonds?

Scrit
 

bugbear

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Scrit":39bu8xol said:
Bugbear

Any comments about the other American saw file makes, Simmonds?

Scrit
I have used neither Nicholsons, Simonds, nor Grobet. Indeed, the Axminster Vallorbes were the first new files I've bought.

Saw files (all be it slightly worn) come up at at boot sales... Most of mine are either Tyzack or Stubs.

BugBear
 

MikeW

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With modern metallurgical analysis, I wouldn't worry about the "where".
What? Me worry?

Wasn't the point. Not that I was overly trying to make one. If there was a point it would be the issue of differing manufacturing plant, hence perhaps different tolerances on the radii of the varius files sizes.

There are times to not worry about the size of the file (going smaller that is). For instance, when one wants a smaller gullet :lol:

And the whole issue might not be a real issue anyway.

The portion of a file that wears the fastest--indeed to the point of uselessness--is the corner. I would reackon to say I have never really wore out the face of a saw file. Ever. Not filing a saw. (There was a couple I used for other filing purposes, but that don't count :wink: )

The files do need a cleaning, as any file. But the corners will wear to the point of being too large, dull, or have broken teeth before the faces. The broken file teeth at the corner are easy to do with too much pressure on a 3xx. A file gets progressively stronger teeth with larger files.

Well, that's my experience anyway.

Take care, Mike
 

engineer one

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for those who use mail order, the london company of Shesto
sell good quality files, and keep many small sizes in stock.
paul :lol:
ps Mike W, are you sure you are not spending too much time
sharpening your saws??? :lol:
 

MikeW

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engineer one":2h20m2aq said:
...ps Mike W, are you sure you are not spending too much time sharpening your saws??? :lol:
Hey Paul,

:lol: My saws? Well, I did sharpen two of my own last night...does that count? Other people's...now that's a different story.

Take care, Mike
 

engineer one

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hey mike w. i must not make too many comments, i just spent a
while sharpening six really beaten up marples and stanley chisels
(with plastic handles) tonight.

daft what you do for clients isn't it???

at least with the chisels, i can't file holes in my hands
(tormek rules KO) :lol: at least for retail sales!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

all the best
paul
 

bugbear

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MikeW":mftbyyjc said:
With modern metallurgical analysis, I wouldn't worry about the "where".
What? Me worry?

Wasn't the point. Not that I was overly trying to make one.
Well, you did say:

And then, where do they source the steel for the files.
Which is a question, so I tried to address it.

BugBear
 

Alf

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Resurrecting this thread from the past 'cos I've been busily trying to track down a UK stockist for double extra slim taper files and I thought it would be best to keep similar info all together.

First up, having tracked down Vallorbe's catalogue, can anyone tell me how exactly three square files differ from saw files? Here's the PDF of the relevant bit of their catalogue and the only likely "saw files" I can find are described on page 17. Now they use the term "saw" for the chain saw files a few pages later, so why not here? Maybe because they're not? I dunno, it just struck me that maybe the reason they're not very good saw files is 'cos they're not saw files...

Secondly, I emailed both Bahco and the Nicholson folks (Coopers?) about sourcing their respective XX slims in the UK, having first assertained product numbers from their catalogues so I sounded like I knew what I was talking about. Haven't heard from Nicholson yet but from Jo at Bahco Tools Ltd gave me "Mr Dennis Wells of DWServices, he runs a mail-order service in conjunction with us and im sure he will be able to help you, his contact details are as follows;Tel: 07715 377 548". I haven't called yet - mobile number and no address? Erm... :? But of course Bahco apparently only do 5" and 6" anyway, and really I want 4" :( So I'm hanging on with finger's crossed for Nicholson. :roll:

Anyway, fwiw. I'll be paying for Swiss files to be shipped back across the Atlantic over my dead body... :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

MikeW

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Three square files come to a sharper edge. Unless one buys cheap made in China ones [there are good made in China ones though] and in that case there is not a lot of difference.

A 6" three square will possibly leave a large enough gullet radius to avoid creating a stress point which can crack the saw plate, but a good quality 4" three square may not as it is that much smaller an edge.

Take care, Mike
 

MikeW

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Alf":2yzl04iy said:
...Anyway, fwiw. I'll be paying for Swiss files to be shipped back across the Atlantic over my dead body... :wink:

Cheers, Alf
I could always go down to my corner hardware store and pick up some Nicholsons for you. That way they at least originated here :lol:

Take care, Mike
running very fast...
 

PeterEvans

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I have collected a large number of unused NOS saw files from a number of brands, and just use them without getting obsessive.

3 Square files are double cut (saw files are single cut) machinist files. These files are used in saw sharpening machines and Ulmia recommend their use for their frame saws. They have a sharp edge and cut aggressively and rougher than saw taper files.

A friend uses nothing else, he/we have a source for very cheap - $A4 - larger size Austrian files (forget brand for the moment). He did relent and used a 4" x slim taper file for a dovetail saw, but it was touch and go. He usually uses a 12" 3 square for everything.
 
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