Rutlands Dakota Morticer - Advice needed

[glynster]

I picked up one of the Dakota morticers from Rutlands while the sale was on over the weekend. It seems a substantial piece of kit and generally good value and well built for a modern bit of kit. Being new to woodworking, and given the woodworking machine tradition of providing the worst assembly instructions and manuals know to man (literally this had absolutely no assembly instruction - just an exploded diagram of it featuring every single component - more info than is helpful) I struggled but managed to get it together. ANyway, I also picked up a set of mortice chisels because reviewers said that the one that came with it was junk. Well, after a few practice runs, I cant understand why it just doesnt want to plunge - or if it does the resistance is so great I feel like I am going to break it. How much pressure should I be applying to a morticer and do you think its possible that the chisels arrived blunt? I would have guessed brand new chisels would be razor sharp - are they sharpen-able? The spikes certainly seem sharp. I have set the auger about 1mm to 2mm proud of the chisel as advised (read it somewhere) but that didn't seem to help.

I must confess, I have splashed out on a table saw, bandsaw and other bits and bobs and they are currently all sitting in boxes - slightly overwhelmed

 

[Rhossydd]

Yes, it does take some heft on the lever to cut a mortice with this sort of machine.

Give it some consideration;
For a half inch mortice: How much effort would you use to drill a half inch diameter hole ? the amount you need to push plus the weight of the drill.
Then add to that the two inches of cutting length of the chisel edges(4x1/2"), plus the fact that it's rubbing (cutting) on all sides on the first cut.

Does that illustration make sense as to why you might need some effort ?

Make sure the auger has enough clearance and is as sharp as possible, the chisel itself is probably OK to start with, but check the outside surface is smooth. Sometimes they can have a few machining marks that can be smoothed over with a stone or similar, then rub with a machine lubricating wax to keep friction as low as possible.

 

[glynster]

Hi, thanks for the advice, I suppose I just underestimated the pressure required. Seems I will need a more sturdy table for it in that case. The chisels do have machine marks on them. Do I rub them over a standard chisel sharpening wet stone or do I need honing spatula types? I assume that a diamond sharpener is fundamentally different to a wet stone then.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They need a surprising amount of pressure. Set the gap a little wider possibly, and remember to work away from the open side of the chisel.

 

[Hemsby]

I picked up one of the Dakota morticers from Rutlands while the sale was on over the weekend. It seems a substantial piece of kit and generally good value and well built for a modern bit of kit. Being new to woodworking, and given the woodworking machine tradition of providing the worst assembly instructions and manuals know to man (literally this had absolutely no assembly instruction - just an exploded diagram of it featuring every single component - more info than is helpful) I struggled but managed to get it together. ANyway, I also picked up a set of mortice chisels because reviewers said that the one that came with it was junk. Well, after a few practice runs, I cant understand why it just doesnt want to plunge - or if it does the resistance is so great I feel like I am going to break it. How much pressure should I be applying to a morticer and do you think its possible that the chisels arrived blunt? I would have guessed brand new chisels would be razor sharp - are they sharpen-able? The spikes certainly seem sharp. I have set the auger about 1mm to 2mm proud of the chisel as advised (read it somewhere) but that didn't seem to help.

I must confess, I have splashed out on a table saw, bandsaw and other bits and bobs and they are currently all sitting in boxes - slightly overwhelmed

Hi,

Bought the same morticer a few weeks ago. The chisel that came with it was truly awful I did sharpen it up before I used it but still found it wanting .

The problem was the poor finish on the flutes of the auger, the wood chippings were getting choked before they got to the exit slot in the chisel. I filed a short length of the flutes & polished them with emery paper which made a improvement when cutting, but doing this the full length of the auger was going to be a task .

I purchased a chisel checking first that the auger had a good ground smooth finish along the flutes and it has made a massive improvement on the cutting much less effort .

You will find much good advice on the forum about buying good quality chisels and I agree, but for home use you do not have to spend a fortune.

One other point you may want to check the slide way adjustments as mine were incredible loose.

 

[glynster]

Thanks for sharing your experience Hemsby, I will have to do some research into chisel sharpening. I too have a lot of sideways play - the manual is next to useless as you no doubt know and I assume that the adjusters for that are the screws on the sides which seem to pinch the dovetailed track (if that makes sense). Trouble is, when I tighten them a little to reduce play, the adjustment is very hard to the point of being locked altogether. I am also amazed that the forwards and backwards adjustment is via that small chrome wheel which is frustratingly hard and slow to adjust - I feel like I am missing a part or something.

I did buy the set of mortice chisels from Rutlands http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... ota+dk2073 because I read the reviews that the chisel that came with it was bobbins - but they seem even worse!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

also...what size chisel are you using and in what species of wood? I've found that 1/2" was really the limit in oak and hardwoods generally, 3/4" was possible in softwoods. I prefer 3/8" in oak in fact. When you plunge, don't go to full depth in one pass if the wood is really hard and overlap plunges so you're only taking a half plunge. The very first plunge when the wood is completely fresh is always the hardest, once you're started and overlapping it gets easier.

 

[John15]

Hi Glynster,

I have the Axminster equivalent to your model. You can adjust the looseness by turning the bolts in the sides in of the plates.
I agree about the to and fro wheel - it's too small for comfort.
I haven't bothered with the depth stop - I put a pencil mark on the bit which works well.
I've had mine for about 9 months and have done a good bit of morticing in that time, and for the money I am very pleased.

Cheers,

John

 

[Rhossydd]

I am also amazed that the forwards and backwards adjustment is via that small chrome wheel which is frustratingly hard and slow to adjust

The point of that is you really don't want that to change when making a series of mortices. It needs to be precisely adjustable, then not move in use.

 

[Hemsby]

Thanks for sharing your experience Hemsby, I will have to do some research into chisel sharpening. I too have a lot of sideways play - the manual is next to useless as you no doubt know and I assume that the adjusters for that are the screws on the sides which seem to pinch the dovetailed track (if that makes sense). Trouble is, when I tighten them a little to reduce play, the adjustment is very hard to the point of being locked altogether. I am also amazed that the forwards and backwards adjustment is via that small chrome wheel which is frustratingly hard and slow to adjust - I feel like I am missing a part or something.

I did buy the set of mortice chisels from Rutlands http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... ota+dk2073 because I read the reviews that the chisel that came with it was bobbins - but they seem even worse!

Hi glynster,

Although it is important to use decent chisels it is equally or indeed more important to get the slide ways of the machine adjusted correctly or you may get strange shaped mortices .

My machine arrived with 3 adjusting screws on all slide ways but only the longitudinal slide had an additional locking screw and that was clearly in the wrong place. This locking screw was positioned at the extreme end of the slide the result being when the table was at its furthest point if you used the locking screw it pushed the gib strip into fresh air.

I stripped the machine and found the gib strips had not been machined so I filed & linished them finally lapping them on a diamond block. On all 3 slides I drilled & tapped a 6mm hole between the existing centre and end one to fit locking screws.

If you don’t feel inclined to do this, my advice on adjusting the slides is,

Slacken all 3 screws, very lightly tighten them again until you feel the screws toutch the gib strip, slacken the 2 end screws slightly, move the table back & forth the ENTIRE length of the slide, you then need to adjust this centre screw a faction until you feel slight resistance you may have to do this several time. Repeat this with the other 2 adjusters.

Just repeat this on the other 2 slides. This is a laborious task but it is essential to get the slides as good as possible.

Also check that the stop plate on the vertical slide does not foul on the side stop rod at any point.

As you say the cross slide ( knob) is a pain but it can easily be replaced with a handle all you need is a kind person with a lathe to make an extension.

I would post photo’s of my modification but am on holiday for 2 weeks.

If it is any consolation the shop that I purchased my chisel from also had a new Record equivalent machine for sale and the slides were exactly the same as when mine when it arrived.

Hope this all makes sense

Regards,

Keith

 

[custard]

Well, after a few practice runs, I cant understand why it just doesnt want to plunge - or if it does the resistance is so great I feel like I am going to break it. How much pressure should I be applying to a morticer and do you think its possible that the chisels arrived blunt?

Yes, there's some pressure involved in morticing, but you shouldn't feel like you're heaving down, the auger does the donkey work and the chisel just pares a round hole into a square hole.

It's entirely possible the chisel and/or auger are blunt. They're not difficult to sharpen and in any event you should be sharpening them fairly regularly (certainly when the operation starts to get smokey). You can get special sharpening cones for the chisel which speed things up, or you can wrap wet and dry paper around a dowel and do it that way. You ONLY EVER sharpen the inside of the chisel, but some people (myself included) polish the outside of the chisel to a mirror finish. The auger you sharpen with a small file , again, only the cutting edge and the INSIDE of the spur.

 

[Hemsby]

Hi glynster

As an experiment you could try to check to see if it is either the chisel or auger or both to blame, place them in the machine as normal but do not set the usual clearance, try to protrude the auger as much as possible in front of the chisel with the minimum in the drill chuck to grip the auger shank properly. Then drill just until the chisel meets the surface of the wood. Clean out the hole.

Remove the assembly, replace with the chisel only and try to plunge down almost to the drilled depth. This should give you an idea if the auger & chisel cut well individually if they do then clearly there is a problem when they are assembled. Remember not to move the table position during the change over. If it is necessary to remove the test piece to enable you to remove the assembly after you have drilled the hole, when you have inserted the chisel line it up as close as possible equal about the drilled hole, this will be close enough to test the chisel.

Do not bother to line up the chisel with the vertical fixed back of the table for either of these checks.

Regards,

Keith