Rules of thumb for the plane/chisel 'Sharp test'

[transatlantic]

I've recently purchased a low angle block plane (Axminster Rider No. 60 1/2 Low Angle Block Plane) as my introduction to hand planes and things aren't going as 'smoothly' as I'd hoped. There is nothing wrong with tool itslelf, I am just finding it difficult to get a smooth cut. Which is most likely down to me not sharpening it very well. So, I'm wondering if there's a good rule of thumb test for checking to see if a plane blade is sharp before inserting it into the tool? At least that way I can narrow it down to my sharpening, as opposed to something else like wood/technique or something else.

My tests were simple things, like checking to see if it would cut paper cleanly, or removing material from the back of my nail, which it did both with ease. I also tried to shave some hair off my arm, which it didn't manage to do (is that a bad sign?). So I excitedly put the blade in the tool, but was less than happy when I tried to make shavings on a length of thin (1.5 inch) pine (no knots). Although I was able to make nice thin shavings , it took A LOT of effort to push the plane and would often get stuck, and the surface it left wasn't great. The surface wasn't torn, but I'd mostly certainly want to have sanded it afterwards. I also tried flipping the wood to see if I was planing in the wrong direction, but it did'nt help much.

From what I gather, Pine should be one of the easiest woods to plane, and should leave a 'Finish Ready' surface. So I guess my sharpening is bollocks

I followed the technique here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFw--HUkWTc, but with different stones. I used a 1000 grit diamond stone and a 4000 grit water stone. He seems to be able to effortlessly push the blade on hard wood ... like butter.

 

[JakeS]

Before you automatically blame your sharpening, also consider that the adjustment of the blade within the plane and the opening of the mouth can also make a huge difference.

I've got several tools that aren't so sharp that hairs fall off my arm when I look at them but still cut perfectly well - but a plane is an easy thing to get incorrectly set up, especially if you're new to it.




The test I use for sharpness of a blade is whether I can slice it through regular 80gsm printer paper edge-on. When I try, does the paper fold (completely blunt), tear (needs a bit more sharpening) or get sliced cleanly (tool is good to go). However, even if the blade is sharp enough to do that, if the angle of the bevel is wrong for the plane in question it still might not work well.

 

[Bm101]

I'm a complete amateur but my guess would be that the plane iron may be protruding too far from the bed. Forgive me if im teaching Grandma to suck eggs. No offence meant but I can't see any other reason. That plane's got pretty good reviews, it also has the adjustable mouth so you could reduce the mouth. If you havent done much planing before (?) might be worth watching a video or two on technique. How to plant your feet, angle of your arm etc. Together that might solve your issues. As I say I'm far from an expert, but I have learned to start as shallow as possible with the blade, get the right angle with my body etc and don't let the tool bully you. I'm sure more qualified people will be along to add better advice (and 20 pages of sharpening advice lol). If the plane cuts paper like a razor it should really be sharp enough for white pine.

 

[Bm101]

Ooops. Sorry Jake. Takes me ages to type

 

[Billy Flitch]

Hi this is just a guess so it might be way out, on the 60 1/2 underneath the plane iron is the lateral adjuster at the back of the adjuster are two tabs these tabs should be pointing down are they ?

 

[Bm101]

Ohh. Just a thought. Is what youre clamping it to stable?

 

[transatlantic]

Hi this is just a guess so it might be way out, on the 60 1/2 underneath the plane iron is the lateral adjuster at the back of the adjuster are two tabs these tabs should be pointing down are they ?

Yep

Ohh. Just a thought. Is what youre clamping it to stable?

Pretty stable. it's hard to move the bench

 

[James-1986]

Sharpness wise no idea, but you don't need a super sharp iron to plane pine, it will plane perfectly well straight off a bog standard fine oil stone. If you are getting fine shavings then the iron sounds like it is not advanced too much. If it is hard to push and keeps stopping then perhaps the mouth is too tight? Once it gets clogged the plane will not want to go anywhere. It's pine so don't worry about the mouth, it just needs to be wide enough to let the shavings through and tight enough to stop you catching the mouth on the edges of the timber.

You should clearly be able to see the grain direction on a board of pine, so double check that, going the wrong way (especially with a not so sharp iron) will cause quite large slithers of timber to start breaking out which can jam up the plane.

You'll know when you've got it right, and probably won't be able to stop

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I have very limited experience (4 chisels and 3 plane irons to be precise ) but I can tell you whats worked for me. I know you mentioned the iron is sharp, but it might be worth going back to square 1 and checking everything over, in conjunction with the advice offered already about checking the mouth and so on.

I'd check your diamond/water stones are truly flat across the length and breadth. Mine weren't so I had to get a replacement. Uneven sharpening creates all kinds of weirdness, as I found out :lol:.

I'd then double check I had the correct bevel angle for the blade. All my plane irons had been sharpened very badly by their previous users, so I had to start from scratch.

In my humble opinion, 1,000 grit is not the right grade for preparation of a new blade. It removes so little of the material that unless you are at it for hours, you're very unlikely to flatten anything. Fastest would be to use 150 or so would be better initially then step up to 250 and higher if you want to polish also (helps with waste removal apparently, which makes sense).

According to Paul Sellers, 250 is sufficient to sharpen any plane iron for use. Obviously, aside from his reputation, my own experiments confirm what he says so that sold me on his method. I go 150 (just because it's a bit quicker), 250, 600, 1200 then on to 10,000 grit chromium oxide on a strop.

The fine shavings you took, were they in continuous ribbons and even thickness across if so? I found the shavings told me the whole story and I've managed to setup 3 planes successfully by trial and error using the shavings as indicators, but it did take a while.

How does the sole of the plane look? I know its new, but as with chisels, it doesn't mean what should be flat, actually is.

One more question...are you using a honing guide, or sharpening the irons by hand?

 

[Mr T]

Hi

My initial test for sharpness is to look closely at the very tip of the blade, if you can see a bead of light or small dings in the edge it is blunt. There should be nothing for the light to reflect off. This is a test that can be done with the blade still in the plane. After sharpening you can usually feel with your thumb when a blade is sharp or test on the hairs on your wrist (work you way up your arm if you have a lot of tools to sharpen!!)

In my experience the Axminster own brand tools can be fairly low quality, making it difficult to get good performance from them. Is the sole flat, especially the adjustable bit at the front, is it co planar with the rest of the sole. You should be working with the front of the mouth about 1 mm or less from the blade.

Chris

 

[Mr T]

Hi

My initial test for sharpness is to look closely at the very tip of the blade, if you can see a bead of light or small dings in the edge it is blunt. There should be nothing for the light to reflect off. This is a test that can be done with the blade still in the plane. After sharpening you can usually feel with your thumb when a blade is sharp or test on the hairs on your wrist (work you way up your arm if you have a lot of tools to sharpen!!)

In my experience the Axminster own brand tools can be fairly low quality, making it difficult to get good performance from them. Is the sole flat, especially the adjustable bit at the front, is it co planar with the rest of the sole. You should be working with the front of the mouth about 1 mm or less from the blade.

Chris

 

[Jacob]

I've recently purchased a low angle block plane (Axminster Rider No. 60 1/2 Low Angle Block Plane) as my introduction to hand planes

As intro to planing it's the wrong plane. A block plane is a very special little tool intended for one handed use for little jobs like trimming off protruding tenons or DTs, taking off arrises etc.
It's not for planing in general, flattening surfaces etc.

It's in Axminster's blurb:"The No.60.1/2 is easy and comfortable to use for numerous trimming and fitting tasks" though their picture of it in use is misleading - doing that drawer edge would be a lot easier if it was clamped up in a vice and done with a no 5.

Perhaps the best general intro plane would be a 5 - preferably an oldish Record

PS if you had to use a block plane for flattening a surface it'd certainly help if the blade was well cambered so that it would take the narrow shavings it is designed for

 

[Wildman]

my initial reaction is to ask are you planing WITH the grain or against it?

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I've recently purchased a low angle block plane (Axminster Rider No. 60 1/2 Low Angle Block Plane) as my introduction to hand planes

As intro to planing it's the wrong plane. A block plane is a very special little tool intended for one handed use for little jobs like trimming off protruding tenons or DTs, taking off arrises etc.
It's not for planing in general, flattening surfaces etc.

It's in Axminster's blurb:"The No.60.1/2 is easy and comfortable to use for numerous trimming and fitting tasks" though their picture of it in use is misleading - doing that drawer edge would be a lot easier if it was clamped up in a vice and done with a no 5.

Perhaps the best general intro plane would be a 5 - preferably an oldish Record

PS if you had to use a block plane for flattening a surface it'd certainly help if the blade was well cambered so that it would take the narrow shavings it is designed for

No intention to hijack but why a number 5 over a number 4?

I'm in the market for a larger plane myself. I have a 3 and was looking at buying a 4.5 and a 5.5.

 

[Jacob]

.......

No intention to hijack but why a number 5 over a number 4?.......

There's not much in it either way. They are all close I suppose if you missed out alternating numbers you'd still have more than you need!

 

[Graham Orm]

Close the mouth down using the knob and lever at the front. That will make a big difference to the depth of cut. I have the Stanley version which looks identical and it's a superb tool, I use it constantly at work.

Make sure the back of the blade is flat, you'll never get an edge if it's not.

Use an Eclipse jig to sharpen for consistency (yes I know Jacob, sharpening jigs are the devils spawn).

Find yourself a piece of leather and make a few strokes on the suede side after sharpening, preferably with a paste on it of some sort.

 

[Graham Orm]

.......

No intention to hijack but why a number 5 over a number 4?.......

There's not much in it either way. They are all close I suppose if you missed out alternating numbers you'd still have more than you need!

My go-to on site is a #5, it has more weight and obviously a longer sole. However it's a bit unwieldy for one handed stuff when trying to hold the job as well. For that reason, I've been thinking of carrying a #4 as well.

Purely down to personal preference I'd say.

 

[transatlantic]

Thank you - I shall try all these suggestions.

In my humble opinion, 1,000 grit is not the right grade for preparation of a new blade. It removes so little of the material that unless you are at it for hours, you're very unlikely to flatten anything. Fastest would be to use 150 or so would be better initially then step up to 250 and higher if you want to polish also (helps with waste removal apparently, which makes sense).

I meant to mention that my diamond stone has 2 sides 400/1000. I used the 400 first. Pretty sure I flattened the whole blade as I used a perminent marker to make a pattern that I checked got wiped off.

How does the sole of the plane look? I know its new, but as with chisels, it doesn't mean what should be flat, actually is.

I haven't actually checked this yet. I thought that was more to with getting a flat result. I was initially just trying to get it cutting easily

One more question...are you using a honing guide, or sharpening the irons by hand?

I'm using a guide. Not the fancy veritas one, just the basic one.

After sharpening you can usually feel with your thumb when a blade is sharp or test on the hairs on your wrist (work you way up your arm if you have a lot of tools to sharpen!!)

This is mainly why I was asking, as due to my little experience, rubbing th blade against my thumb feels the same for 1000 diamond as it does 4000 wetstone. I did try to shave some hair off, but it wasn't working. As for the light test, I wasn't able to see any reflection.

As intro to planing it's the wrong plane. A block plane is a very special little tool intended for one handed use for little jobs like trimming off protruding tenons or DTs, taking off arrises etc.
It's not for planing in general, flattening surfaces etc.

Hmm. The reason I got it was because I've seen quite a few people recommend it as the first plane as it's a good all round plane for small jobs (not flattening).

my initial reaction is to ask are you planing WITH the grain or against it?

As I mentioned - I tried both directions

 

[Graham Orm]

A good magnifier and good light is an excellent way to see if you have a crisp edge. If you struggle to see the 'shiny edge' that Chris describes, try a magnifying glass or 2 pairs of reading glasses at the same time. You will clearly see whether the edge is crisp or not.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I'm using a guide. Not the fancy veritas one, just the basic one.

Are you absolutely certain the blade is held squarely in the guide? I have a basic one right here next to me. It's a Screwfix jobby and no matter what I do with it, it wont hold a blade square in the horizontal plane. This one is basically junk as it results in all my chisels/plane irons having an angled cutting edge.

Not saying this would definitely cause the problem you describe, but with limited clearance in the mouth, it will cause problems.