Routing and glue advice

[Sundance]

Hi

This is my first post, just joined today.
My plan is to make a laminated gun stock. I intend to cut my laminates (out of beech) on my band saw, dye and glue them together and use my router to carve into the laminated block.

My question is what would be a suitable glue to use between the laminates? I'm wondering about issues regarding binding up the router bit, strength, exterior use and any other potential problems...

Thanks
Simon

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Why are you laminating the beech? It is easily available in sizees thick/wide enough for gunstocks. Dying before laminating and carving won't work either. What have you got in mind.

Mike.

 

[Sundance]

Hi Mike

Thanks for your reply.

I'm laminating mainly for decorative effect. It is done by others and seems a well established approach..... I am able to buy pre laminated gun stock blocks but they are very expensive.
Thought I would give it a go myself..

 

[monkeybiter]

for information https://www.stockysstocks.com/weath...imited-edition-thumbhole-laminated-stock.html

 

[Mr T]

The laminates shown in the link look like they are coloured right through. I don't know of a process available to the hobbyist that can achieve that. Most dyes only penetrate a thin layer on the surface. You could get a similar effect, but less colourful, using different species of wood.

Cascamite or an epoxy would do the adhesive job but would be very hard on any cutting tools. I'm not sure the router is the best tool for this job, the shape is a little too "free form" for the router. Perhaps band sawing then hand carving and filing or an arbortec would be more appropriate.

Chris

 

[Sundance]

Thanks for the replies guys..

Yes the link shows the sort of effect I'm after...

I have a router copier and I was intending to create a blank master in solid wood and copy my laminated piece from that. Regarding the detailed inletting I can use the original gun stock as my copy. Hope this makes sense....

Can get the rough shape with the tools suggested but would like to use my router copier as well...so interested in a glue that wont hinder the router bit.

Regarding getting the dye into the wood I was thinking of using plastic bags and creating a vacuum...but keen to hear any other thoughts...

I like the idea of using different species of wood as well...so any further suggestions most welcome....beech, walnut and poplar seem to be used frequently..

Thank you again for the great advice so far.

 

[sunnybob]

Thanks for the replies guys..

Yes the link shows the sort of effect I'm after...

I have a router copier and I was intending to create a blank master in solid wood and copy my laminated piece from that. Regarding the detailed inletting I can use the original gun stock as my copy. Hope this makes sense....

Can get the rough shape with the tools suggested but would like to use my router copier as well...so interested in a glue that wont hinder the router bit.

Regarding getting the dye into the wood I was thinking of using plastic bags and creating a vacuum...but keen to hear any other thoughts...

I like the idea of using different species of wood as well...so any further suggestions most welcome....beech, walnut and poplar seem to be used frequently..

Thank you again for the great advice so far.

As an ex shooter, and newbie woodworker, I would suggest you make a very careful costing of your project.
By the time you factor in wood, dye, cutting bits, remaking because the first one went wrong, etc etc, and not even mentioning the many many hours involved, I think you should bite the bullet (pun intended) and just buy one. You'll never get the same finish, and youre unlikely to be pleased with it when resting alongside other shop mades. I used to see many home made pistol grips, very few were well made and fitted.

Which gun is it for? I still have some contacts in the trade.
If for security reasons you dont want to make the rest of this public, just send me a Personal Message.

 

[Sundance]

Hi Sunnybob

Its for an Air Arms TX200 but it could be for any air rifle, spring or PCP. So long as I have the original stock I can copy the inletting to fit any action.

I shoot Field Target and I'm interested in creating an attractive stock, but also one that will fit me and be comfortable for the seated, kneeling and standing positions. That will partly be down to the wood shape and partly down to the adjustability of the metal accessories. I will be putting on an adjustable cheek raiser, an adjustable hamster and an adjustable shoulder hook.

As mentioned I want to create a solid wood shape that I'm happy with and then I can use that as my copy template for the laminate block on my copy carver. The laminate block will be roughly shaped on my band saw and the detailing and inletting will be done on the copy carver,

There are a few guys out there making them commercially but I'm giving it a go myself.

As I anticipate using my copy carver for much of the project I'm keen to get feedback on a glue that will provide great adhesion to the laminate sheets, be waterproof and also kind to the router bit...

 

[sunnybob]

good luck, I applaud your enthusiasm. But I still think your home made will end up costing you more than shop bought. Just think of the parts youre going to buy. those seperately will cost more than a package.
Wish I could help with the glue, but I'm far too new at this.
I'll ask around and see if I can come up with an all in price, just for comparison.

 

[sunnybob]

Hi Sunnybob

Its for an Air Arms TX200 but it could be for any air rifle, spring or PCP. So long as I have the original stock I can copy the inletting to fit any action.

I shoot Field Target and I'm interested in creating an attractive stock, but also one that will fit me and be comfortable for the seated, kneeling and standing positions. That will partly be down to the wood shape and partly down to the adjustability of the metal accessories. I will be putting on an adjustable cheek raiser, an adjustable hamster and an adjustable shoulder hook.

As mentioned I want to create a solid wood shape that I'm happy with and then I can use that as my copy template for the laminate block on my copy carver. The laminate block will be roughly shaped on my band saw and the detailing and inletting will be done on the copy carver,

There are a few guys out there making them commercially but I'm giving it a go myself.

As I anticipate using my copy carver for much of the project I'm keen to get feedback on a glue that will provide great adhesion to the laminate sheets, be waterproof and also kind to the router bit...

Found a particularly nice one, I think youll find these are different woods, not just dyed.
http://www.air-arms.co.uk/wp-content/up ... /uscp1.jpg

An youll notice the cheek is NOT just carved from the main, theres a different layer pattern on it. Its very hard indeed to cut a cheek pice from a stock and keep the shape right, too much wood is lost on the cut and smoothing.
I'm, not trying to put you off, honest! (lol) :lol:

 

[Sundance]

Yep, that's the effect I'm after...

But what is a good glue to stick the laminates together, that will be waterproof and also kind to the router bit?? That's my question...

 

[sunnybob]

from my very limited experience, pva glue, and clean the cutter frequently with white spirit.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Now I understand why you want to laminate. But those dyed stocks are made from pressure dyed wood and it is not replicable with normal dying techniques or without the pressure dying equipment. Beech is especially difficult to get dye penetration as it is quite close pored and dense. I think the only way is to use different species of woods, unless you can find a supplier of pressure dyed stock. As for glue, PVA is not the best as it is prone to creep. As Mr T says, cascamite is a good choice. It is quite hard on cutters, but will not clog them up, but I'm afraid this will be the case with any creep resistant, water resistant glues such as urea/resorcinol formaldehyde types. Polyurethane would work too, as long as the mating surfaces were super close fitting. It is a bit messier though. I used to make gunstocks years ago, and find good old fashioned rasps are still the best shaping tools.

Mike.

 

[Sundance]

Thanks guys..

I now feel as if I can start making a few test pieces using some of your suggestions...

Many thanks indeed...