Router table

[Trevanion]

1. A while back you said something about an ‘interesting design that you turn the fence around to work on the backside with more table depth and without the sliding table in the way’. What did you mean by this?

If you watch the Charnwood video on the W030 moulder at about the 1:25 mark it shows the fence turned around on the table so you've got more work area for the timber to run on, if you were to try and straight mould on the sliding table side I don't think you would have much of the table for the workpiece to run on.

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2. For end-profiling, or tenoning, should I attach a spelch block where the black plastic piece is on the sliding table fence, or just have a piece of scrap behind the full length of the wood?

If you look at the above video, Charnwood seem to have used some kind of block with a notch cut out of it bolted to the backside of the tenoning fence as a spelch block. I personally would have a couple of t-slot nuts to fit in slots in the front of the aluminium fence and bolt a piece of timber to it the full length of the fence, or maybe two smaller pieces with a gap between them to save on timber.

3. What is that black plastic piece for? It looks like support for overcutting on the end.

Honestly? not a clue! :lol:

4. To set up for tenoning with two circular saw blades (or a rebate block), would I slide an upright square up to the blades, and mark that on the table as the cheek depth, then run that line down the table and clamp a stop-block there for repeated cuts? There is a rear flip stop fitted, but only for shorter pieces.

For general furniture and agricultural stuff (chicken runs etc) I can’t see myself needing tenons longer than 75mm. Usually well under, as I tend to do blind mortices now.

That's the basic gist of it, another perhaps simpler way to do it would be to clamp a piece in your sliding table to that it just kisses the very apex of the cut on the blades, draw the sliding table back and put a 75mm or whatever sized spacer on the end of the workpiece and clamp a stop to the table butting up to the end of the spacer, remove the spacer and push the timber up to the stop and you should have an exact depth cut.

Just bear in mind, if you want to do 75mm tenons you'll need quite large blades, 200mm minimum otherwise the end of the tenon will bottom out against the shaft (200mm subtract 50mm for shaft spacer diameter divided by two = 75mm). It'll be quite difficult to guard such a large diameter properly but not impossible, I'd probably go for a pair of 250mm blades like the CMT 286 ripping blades with 16 teeth because they're inexpensive, then build a box to surround the blades as best as possible and to extract the dust effectively and I would run the machine at 4500RPM while doing the job, taking my time to push the timber through.

 

[guineafowl21]

Of course! It’s obvious now I come to think of it. The manual doesn’t mention turning the fence around, as far as I remember. It tells you how to put the thing together, but doesn’t really attempt to tell you how to use it. You need the sliding table behind the fence when using it backwards, otherwise there’s a hole underneath the dust outlet.

I’ve played around with making some tenons now. I think the plastic block is a spelch block. The infeed fence, being screw-adjustable, makes quite a good stop for sizing the tenon. As for thickness, I’ve been setting it up slightly too fat on a test piece, then twiddling thinner and thinner until I get a good fit.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I screwed my router to a sheet of plywood to make my router table. It sits on a pair of trestles.

I'm feeling very inadequate right now, and I really need a spindle moulder. Just because.

 

[guineafowl21]

This bug ger ^^^ will convince you to get one! Upside down router in plywood was what I used. It was the tenoning and general multi-function that tipped the balance for me.

 

[Trevanion]

This bug ger ^^^ will convince you to get one!

I've always had a knack for pulling people to the dark side :lol:

I'm feeling very inadequate right now, and I really need a spindle moulder. Just because.

It'd be right up your street TN! Forget the chainsaws and olive oil, this is your true calling!

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[Trainee neophyte]

"If it looks dangerous then it probably is."

I NEED a spindle moulder now. It's gone way beyond want. I'll have to sell a child, or a house or something, but there's no question - we're getting a spindle moulder.

Quite what I do with it once I have it - no idea. Certainly no work requiring it, but that's not the point.

 

[guineafowl21]

I like my spindle moulder! First proper job has been cutting tenons, haunches and chamfers in some small table aprons (see below). Next thing for these will be an arch. The drum sanding kit is surprisingly useful, too.

I’ve ordered a bearing follower to use with the rebate cutterhead and jigs like this:

Fences/guards will be added, of course. The writing on the table is my attempt with a dial gauge to set the traversing table a constant 0.1mm above the main table, and parallel to it.

When tenoning or otherwise with the rebate cutter, do you set cut height and depth with the scribers, or the blades themselves?

Similarly, the scribers foul the template above when the knives are set to just graze it. I’d rather not put a spacer under the piece, so could I just remove the scribers for this operation?

 

[Trevanion]

Good to hear you're getting along with it!

I’ve ordered a bearing follower to use with the rebate cutterhead and jigs

Is that a cam lock on the jig? If I were you I'd buy a couple of toggle clamps and use them on your jig, they're not too particularly expensive and they work quite well and are easily reused on other jigs.

If you weren't already going to do it this way, I'd also only take that cut to halfway cutting downhill with the grain, take the workpiece out and flip it around to do the same on the other side rather than one half cut with the grain and the other half against the grain in a single pass which can potentially break out and will be difficult to sand out.

When tenoning or otherwise with the rebate cutter, do you set cut height and depth with the scribers, or the blades themselves?

The height of cut is dictated by the scribe cutters when they're installed as they're ever so slightly higher/lower than the blades by a fraction. The depth of cut is dictated by the blades themselves at the apex of their cut, the scribers do however protrude slightly further out than the blades so you are left with a little line in the very corner of the rebate about a half a millimeter deep.

Similarly, the scribers foul the template above when the knives are set to just graze it. I’d rather not put a spacer under the piece, so could I just remove the scribers for this operation?

Yep, just take them off and you'll be fine. I do it quite often when I'm doing rebates or bevels that are higher than the block in two passes and I don't want a scriber line down the workpiece.

 

[guineafowl21]

I’ll get some toggle clamps and make some decent jigs. The old boy (Roy Sutton?) in the video: “A lash-up WON’T DO!”. Made me feel guilty

The bearing follower arrived, so I managed to form some arches, using the fence as a ‘pin’:

And compound curves for some Paul Sellers table legs:

I couldn’t swap the arches over to cut with the grain, as the chamfers on the tenons are slightly different, meaning the aprons don’t flip exactly. Next time I’ll do the arches before the chamfers. I got away with it by going very slowly and holding on tight.

No sign of the Scosarg order yet (the rail/stile cutters etc.) but there’s plenty to play with now. (hammer)

 

[Trevanion]

Who needs a router table? :lol:

 

[guineafowl21]

Who needs a router table? :lol:

Me, two or three weeks ago! :shock:

 

[guineafowl21]

Done some dovetails with the router function. A slower cut but it doesn’t seem to burn, even with the small bit. I made a sled which seems to work.

Hmmm. Scosarg got back to me after the second email to say, two weeks on from the order, that they haven’t posted it yet. One set of knives is out of stock, and may take a week more to get to them.

I asked them to cancel that set of knives and send out the rest. I’ve ordered a panel raiser from Axminster instead. They refunded roughly half the amount for some reason.

All this, and I’m paying £17 postage for a small parcel of knives. In the meantime I’ve ordered several sequential parcels from Axminster for free, and all have arrived promptly.

I guess there isn’t much choice in specialist things like SM tooling, but that is pretty poor. I might try Wealden next time, although I do like to give suppliers a chance. The Scosarg range is good.

EDIT: They’ve just got back to say they’ve only cancelled the limiters for the back-ordered knives, and sent on the cutters. I can’t use the cutters on their own in the Euro block. #-o

 

[MikeJhn]

You don't seem to get this sort of problem with Router tables, I wonder why most people use them. #-o

 

[MikeJhn]

Who needs a router table? :lol:

By the tone and sounds of the above post the OP does.

 

[guineafowl21]

I’ve had plenty of stuff arrive for the SM, and Axminster do have a small range of cutters that I’ve bought from.

Sometimes suppliers just make a hash of things. I’ve seen it before in various hobbies. Still delighted with the machine, though. Just that one knife wasn’t available, and they decided not to send the whole order. Add on Highland postage from the dark ages (RM send 1st class for a fiver), and then not paying attention to what I wanted.

 

[MikeJhn]

I can only suggest using Wealdon as they seem to send out things without any agenda, I have received cutters in France within two days which is a miracle considering the French postal system. =D> =D> :lol:

 

[Trevanion]

I've spent quite a lot through S&S through the years and they have always delivered the goods in good time except for one occasion which was also down to a pair of CMT knives or limiters not in stock :lol: I wouldn't put too much blame on S&S at the moment as the CMT knives come from Italy and I imagine CMT are probably up to their eyeballs at the moment trying to get stuff out to suppliers all over the world because of the current situation.

I can recommend Woodford Tooling as a decent alternative: https://***********************/

Done some dovetails with the router function. A slower cut but it doesn’t seem to burn, even with the small bit. I made a sled which seems to work.

Faster speeds = Burning and premature cutter wear
Slower speeds = Higher chance of kickback and rougher finish

I've always found it's better to do cross-grain work like dovetailing at a slower speed anyway.

EDIT: They’ve just got back to say they’ve only cancelled the limiters for the back-ordered knives, and sent on the cutters. I can’t use the cutters on their own in the Euro block. #-o

Well, technically you can but you'd need a blank pair of limiters to put in the block. As I said in one of my posts before though, it's not the best idea unless you're very confident with the machine.

You don't seem to get this sort of problem with Router tables, I wonder why most people use them. #-o

That's a really odd comment.

 

[guineafowl21]

I've spent quite a lot through S&S through the years and they have always delivered the goods in good time except for one occasion which was also down to a pair of CMT knives or limiters not in stock :lol: I wouldn't put too much blame on S&S at the moment as the CMT knives come from Italy and I imagine CMT are probably up to their eyeballs at the moment trying to get stuff out to suppliers all over the world because of the current situation.

I can recommend Woodford Tooling as a decent alternative: https://***********************/

Done some dovetails with the router function. A slower cut but it doesn’t seem to burn, even with the small bit. I made a sled which seems to work.

Faster speeds = Burning and premature cutter wear
Slower speeds = Higher chance of kickback and rougher finish

I've always found it's better to do cross-grain work like dovetailing at a slower speed anyway.

EDIT: They’ve just got back to say they’ve only cancelled the limiters for the back-ordered knives, and sent on the cutters. I can’t use the cutters on their own in the Euro block. #-o

Well, technically you can but you'd need a blank pair of limiters to put in the block. As I said in one of my posts before though, it's not the best idea unless you're very confident with the machine.

You don't seem to get this sort of problem with Router tables, I wonder why most people use them. #-o

That's a really odd comment.

^^^ Someone’s jealous of our spindle moulders!

I might give S&S another go - I don’t like to condemn a seller for one cock-up.

The cutter on back order was the large panel raiser, so probably not the best to use with blank limiters but an option I’ll keep in mind. I did quite clearly say to cancel both knives and limiters, but it looks like they’ve posted the knives already, and given me a refund for both, after all that.

 

[MikeJhn]

Far from being jealous of your spindle moulders I have everything I need in my Router table and can get every cutter I need off the shelf, I am not a professional so I don't need massive production runs or the cost of very expensive cutters.

 

[guineafowl21]

:mrgreen: Just my little joke

SM cutter sets are generally under £25, in fact I’ve just bought a couple from Axminster for under £20. An ogee and some sort of decorative one.

Different tools; both useful.