Router table insert

[sometimewoodworker]

The one bit I forgot was the Pin thingymajig - someone know the dimensions we should be using and I think it's 1 pin, but 2 possible locations? Metal pin - possibly turned down and a thread in the last bit. Aluminium or Steel pin?

Here is the detail from the MLCS plate I have just got. The centre ring is stepped for a PC bush

There are 2 holes for the guide pin that is not threaded (Woops make that 6 holes)

I hope this is enough information for you.

 

[crazylilting]

Dibs,
I think there are already drawings made for the table in question. Just user search Tony's posts it's in there somewhere.

 

[Dibs-h]

Wizer - how much smaller would you like it? Tony's original design is actually bigger.

Crazy Lilting - found Tony's drawings - they're PDF's. All the laser cutters I've spoken to want DWG\DXF - not really an issue - should take about an hour or so with AutoCAD.

On the subject of pin - I did think about a bolt and needle roller bearing? Or is that asking for trouble when using it? I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.

In terms of the dia of the hole in the plate and of the rings - I was thinking that we should perhaps use the size of those comemrcially available. That way if someone lost or damaged a ring - you wouldn't be stuffed. How does a 90mm opening in the plate sound?

Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?

FOG UK - what\who are FOG?

Router mounting holes - some could easily do them whilst others may want to have them done for them, if the laser is running and it adds a fractional cost - may just be easier to supply the plate with the holes already done. What does the gang think?

As for the dust extraction holes - we wouldn't look to include them as it would be easy enough for someone do do it themselves.

Had a call back this morning from one of the local machining shops I use - the cost is at least twice if it is done in the traditional manner. So lasercut it is.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Dibs-h

I have pm you re router insert.


Pete

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.

A 6mm or 8mm thread would work

In terms of the dia of the hole in the plate and of the rings - I was thinking that we should perhaps use the size of those comemrcially available. That way if someone lost or damaged a ring - you wouldn't be stuffed. How does a 90mm opening in the plate sound?

The MLCS plate has a 98mm through hole with a 103.9 major dia. so a 3mm lip

Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?

Yes, many people supply them, LeeValley is one http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1

FOG UK - what\who are FOG?

Festool Owners Group the posting is at http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=7964.0

Router mounting holes - some could easily do them whilst others may want to have them done for them, if the laser is running and it adds a fractional cost - may just be easier to supply the plate with the holes already done. What does the gang think?

Probably no holes for me.

 

[Paul Chapman]

On the subject of pin - I did think about a bolt and needle roller bearing? Or is that asking for trouble when using it? I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.


Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?

I would have thought a plain pin would be best, like this

http://images.fotopic.net/yp1a3j.jpg

The problem with supplying a ring that takes guide bushes, is that they have to be lined up so that they are concentric with the cutter. This might be problematic if people are drilling the holes to mount the router themselves - there will be no guarantee that the router will be mounted accurately enough to ensure that the guide bush is concentric.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Neil]

Yes please for me too (in aluminium). The 12"x9" (306mm x 229mm) size that sometimewoodworker showed seems to be the most standard size for router plates (Rosseau, Trend, Axminster are all this size too)

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dibs-h]

On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.

On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?

If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.

 

[Paul Chapman]

On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has.

Being able to fit the rings with machine screws is a good idea in my view.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[sometimewoodworker]

On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.

No problem with that, If you are going down the engraving rout then concentric rings on the back to assist with routers with non standard hole patterns would be a good idea

On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?

I would think that 10mm is excessive, any one else?? do the rings need to be fixed? But whatever works is OK.

If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.

 

[Dibs-h]

On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.

No problem with that, If you are going down the engraving rout then concentric rings on the back to assist with routers with non standard hole patterns would be a good idea

On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?

I would think that 10mm is excessive, any one else?? do the rings need to be fixed? But whatever works is OK.

If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.

Concentric rings - good idea.

10mm shoulder - if you are screwing them down - then you'd need something of that size. If not screwing them down, you could go smaller.

If most don't want to fix the rings - that's fine, but for me, something you could barely call an inteference fit and a piece of TCT spinning at upto 20k rpm - I'll be screwing them down.

The other thing is that I suppose is of more concern to me - is what happens if someone who doesn't want to screw them down is provided with a set that can't be screwed down and the ring over time (who knows how long that might be) doesn't fit as well and comes loose whilst in use?

Do we (i.e. me) have some sort of liability type issues?

Don't get me wrong - unless no-one wants one - it is unlikey that this won't go ahead, but I'd rather build safety in than not.

 

[Paul Chapman]

something you could barely call an inteference fit and a piece of TCT spinning at upto 20k rpm - I'll be screwing them down.

I agree - I wouldn't be happy with something loose so close to the cutter. An accident waiting to happen :-k

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Neil]

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.

Actually, could I make mine a qualified yes, only if you go down the 12"x9" route. As the A4 is smaller, I would have to remake my table top.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dibs-h]

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.

Actually, could I make mine a qualified yes, only if you go down the 12"x9" route. As the A4 is smaller, I would have to remake my table top.

Cheers,
Neil

Well that's one with a strong preference for 12"x9" - any other strong preferences?

I'm waiting on a quote back from another laser cutter - hopefully be a better price than the last one as these lot do an awful lot of cutting on an industrial scale. I suspect it will be fairly representative of what the final price is likely to be. This is using Tony's design\size - so our final design (if goes down the road of 12"x9") shouldn't be anymore.

Dibs

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Well that's one with a strong preference for 12"x9" - any other strong preferences?

Dibs

Make that two, I want to replace me Trend so 12" x 9" is the only option for me.

 

[Dibs-h]

Dibs

Make that two, I want to replace me Trend so 12" x 9" is the only option for me.[/quote]

Tony's was\is 14.5" x 11.4" (approx) so whatever the quote comes back at - ours should be less.

Where in relation to the centre aperture shold the lead-in pin be?

 

[Neil]

I can't measure my Trend one until later, but this pic gives some idea. According to tooled-up the largest hole size is 98mm, so I guess the lead-on pins are about 70mm from the centre.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Lord Nibbo]

I would prefer to drill my own so I can use the pins I already have but if it's down to a vote I say plain as Paul has suggested.

 

[Dibs-h]

I would prefer to drill my own so I can use the pins I already have but if it's down to a vote I say plain as Paul has suggested.

They'd come back from the cutters with all holes as plain - therefore those that wanted them to stay that way - wouldn't be an issue. Those that wanted them threaded and didn't have taps\dies - I'm sure I could be tempted into tapping them - assuming everyone didn't jump into that queue!!

I think plain would be better - the pins are available on the web for £1 - can't be made for that!

If folks didn't want the holes lasering for the leadin pin - again whatever the majority want. At this point it's just a case of getting all the info so that I'm not scrabbling around at the last minute for the drawings to be finalised.

Neil - if you could measure me the location of the pins on your Trend one - that would be great.

Do people think we should perhaps standardise our aperture with commercially available ones - that way should someone want additional rings - they could use someone elses?

Also what about a ring allowing the use of router guide bushes?

Me thinks I'm going to have to do a poll or something. I've seen Polls on the forum - can a multi-question poll be done?

 

[Neil]

Neil - if you could measure me the location of the pins on your Trend one - that would be great.

Will do tonight

Cheers,
Neil