Router table insert

[wobblycogs]

Please excuse my ignorance but is the shoulder being milled to 3.1mm rather than 3.0mm because there is some margin of error in the plate thickness and milling which shimming with paper will compensate for?

I can see that having the ring sticking up above the rest of the insert would be a bad thing but wouldn't it be easier to lap the ring to exactly the correct thickness? I'm guessing the tolerance on the 3mm plate and milling is less than 0.05mm which I would have thought you could take off with a bit of wet and dry.

 

[Dibs-h]

Please excuse my ignorance but is the shoulder being milled to 3.1mm rather than 3.0mm because there is some margin of error in the plate thickness and milling which shimming with paper will compensate for?

I can see that having the ring sticking up above the rest of the insert would be a bad thing but wouldn't it be easier to lap the ring to exactly the correct thickness? I'm guessing the tolerance on the 3mm plate and milling is less than 0.05mm which I would have thought you could take off with a bit of wet and dry.

Someone suggested it might be a good idea to be able to shim the rings\discs up - open to sugegstions.

The rings\discs are also being cut out of sheet - so whatever tolerances the sheet comes with will apply to the rings. If folks feel that thr shoulder should be to a depth of 3mm as opposed to 3.1mm, I'm cool with that.

I will send an email and enquire what the tolerance on the sheet is - although I would suspect it's in the 0.0x range as opposed to 0.x.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Are folks happy with dia of the internal holes of the 2 discs? 30mm & 5mm?

I would still hope that the smaller can be sized to permit brass template guides like the http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1

Lee valley ones 1 3/16" main hole (30.16mm) with a 1 3/8" (34.925mm) X 17/64 (2.6mm) recess

 

[Dibs-h]

That sounds like one of the rings would also have a shoulder in it? There's no reason why one of the discs couldn't have a shoulder in it.

We would also need to get that machined as well as the shoulder in the plate - if the m\c shop is charging £2.50 per shoulder in the plate, can't see it being more for a shoulder in the rings.

Would folks want a shoulder doing in one of the rings (the 30mm one) for the plate - or want that as an extra ring?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

That sounds like one of the rings would also have a shoulder in it? There's no reason why one of the discs couldn't have a shoulder in it.

We would also need to get that machined as well as the shoulder in the plate - if the m\c shop is charging £2.50 per shoulder in the plate, can't see it being more for a shoulder in the rings.

Would folks want a shoulder doing in one of the rings (the 30mm one) for the plate - or want that as an extra ring?

A shoulder on the 30mm+ ring wold be fine for me. It seems to be the standard and it is small.

 

[halken]

A shoulder on the 30mm+ ring wold be fine for me as well i had a right job using a bush in my triton router with the trend insert from my t 11

 

[RobertMP]

Thickness tolerances on sheet metal can be quite good - but if you check the standards as to what tolerances are allowed then they are quite large. I don't know the figures but I'd expect it to be somewhere around 10%. Mills usually do a lot better than that... but they don't have to.

The safest way is to give part 'B' to the guy making the shoulder in part 'A' and specify that it should fit flush. If part B varies in thickness then tell them to make it for the average. If you try to tie everything down to the last decimal place you put up the cost and take all the responsibility - just tell them to make it work

 

[aesmith]

Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate?

As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?

 

[RobertMP]

Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate?

As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?

It doesn't matter how central it is - as long as you don't use a bit large enough to catch the edge of the hole due to the router being off centre.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate?

As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?

It doesn't matter how central it is - as long as you don't use a bit large enough to catch the edge of the hole due to the router being off centre.

That is true but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.

 

[Dibs-h]

Centering won't be rocket science - If you tell me what your router is I'll add the mounting holes (assuming I can find out what the spacing\diameter is) to the CAD drawing and email you a printable PDF. Spray mount that on and then drill through the marks.

 

[aesmith]

Centering won't be rocket science - If you tell me what your router is I'll add the mounting holes (assuming I can find out what the spacing\diameter is) to the CAD drawing and email you a printable PDF. Spray mount that on and then drill through the marks.

This deal is getting better and better! Only problem, since this is for a "future" project, I'm not sure if its going to be a Triton TRA001 or an Elu 177 (or a DW625 but I assume that's the same as the Elu)

 

[Dibs-h]

This deal is getting better and better! Only problem, since this is for a "future" project, I'm not sure if its going to be a Triton TRA001 or an Elu 177 (or a DW625 but I assume that's the same as the Elu)

In that case - send me a PM at the appropriate point in time and assuming we can find the mounting details for the router you buy & you aren't one of those "I want it now" brigade - I could alter the cad drawing (all 60 secs of it) and send you another PDF. I suspect by the time I've finished we should have details of most routers. :wink:

 

[RobertMP]

That is true but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.

Not sure I understand this point. I can't imagine using a guide bush in a table but if you did it wouldn't it be mounted to the router baseplate and hence central to the router?

 

[wizer]

That would be the best way to do it actually. I'd not thought of that. There are commercial insert plates that have snap in collars and I guess this is what everyone is thinking of. I can't think of many operations where you'd need one. It's certainly not essential.

If the template, attached to the router can, pass through the plate then there's no need for additional functionality on the plate itself.

 

[CraigyBoy]

Hello,

have I missed the boat? I've read all 15 pages, but it's not obvious!

Cheers CB

 

[sometimewoodworker]

That is true but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.

Not sure I understand this point. I can't imagine using a guide bush in a table but if you did it wouldn't it be mounted to the router baseplate and hence central to the router?

Sorry I missed your post.

If you take a look at Bob and Rick on the routerworkshop (Oak-Park) they have many good videos some of which show how using guide bushes in the table function.

Mounting to the router base plate would work but only if the guide section is 15mm or more If it is less than 15mm then you will have minimal or no guide above the level of the plate. as our plates are going to be 8mm none of the smaller diameter ones would function mounted to the router base plate you have to go over 16mm to get a bush that will clear the 8mm plate
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/routacc2.html
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[RobertMP]

Hello,

have I missed the boat? I've read all 15 pages, but it's not obvious!

Cheers CB

Think it is on hold until after the break so probably not

Sorry I missed your post. <snip>

I understand what you are saying about plate thickness being a problem. Still struggling to think of an application for guide bushes on a table though

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I understand what you are saying about plate thickness being a problem. Still struggling to think of an application for guide bushes on a table though

If you take a look at the Oak-Park miter gage system Video there is one seriese of applications.
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-
Some of them can be done on a Rat but none as fast.

Also quite a few of the guide bushe and template operations a free router does can also be done on a table.

Of course you need to pick your applications for safety.

 

[rileytoolworks]

That Oak Park stuff looks pretty cool.
Might have to build one of those mitre gauges and finger joint jigs (when I get my insert).

Adam.