Retirement

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1. Employ a Manager on circa £25K - £30K
2. Get two apprentice like peeps who are enthusiastic (zero hours if req'd)
3. Sit back.

Living wage foundation puts the living wage at £10.85 / hour for London area. That works out to £22.5K per year. You're suggesting a small amount over that for the manager of a bespoke kitchen company? I think your ideas of salaries are at least 10 years out of date
 
the property value would unless something went very wrong, retain the purchase value or more likely increase so any profit from the rental after expenses has to be viewed in a similar way as you would interest on savings.
It can be made to sound ok and would be great if you could afford it at say 25 to 30 but once that 100K is invested you now only have that £475 a month to play with, and at a retirement age that money is to me more useful in the early days rather than later when I may no longer fully utilise it. The other issue is location, over a ten year period my old southern property increased in value by over 20% wheras my northern one has only increased by around 4% so location is another key factor. It is also why you can move south to North but very hard to do the opposite, I would struggle to get a flat now in the same area south.
 
My mother's ambition was to die bankrupt - didn't quite manage it...

I've just "sort of" retired. Never been so busy! Key is to keep the brain going and to have lots of GENUINE interests...

Did a spreadsheet some years ago that details pretty much everything coming in and going out. When I stopped commuting, that gave back nearly 8K - (ticket, parking, fuel, all those coffees and sandwiches etc.). No suits/ties/smart shirts etc. needed etc. It's amazing how much goes on just "doing work" - obviously this all depends on the type of work you do... but we also don't have expensive tastes (we run cars for a long time, don't do many miles etc.) and grow a lot of our own food, built our own house...

Now I keep finding new business ideas, though I'll never employ folk full-time again and never rent offices etc. Luckily, I'm extremely technical, so web-based business are nice and easy...

You just need a tiny bit more coming in than going out. You can live well and have a load of fun on not-a-lot if you are sensible and get your priorities right.
 
It can be made to sound ok and would be great if you could afford it at say 25 to 30 but once that 100K is invested you now only have that £475 a month to play with, and at a retirement age that money is to me more useful in the early days rather than later when I may no longer fully utilise it. The other issue is location, over a ten year period my old southern property increased in value by over 20% wheras my northern one has only increased by around 4% so location is another key factor. It is also why you can move south to North but very hard to do the opposite, I would struggle to get a flat now in the same area south.
I absolutely agree with all that Roy but it doesn't change what I said in response to your comment that it would take 17 years to get your £100k back as that £100k is invested in the property and would be returned if you sell it so rental is income just as much as if you got interest by investing the lump sum.
Nobody with any sense would do that if their only income would be the rental. Of course there's a risk in buying property just as there is if investing in the stock market and if you put your £100k in the bank it would have lost money in real terms. Quite right about location, I live in Northumberland and my house would be a kings ransom in the South East but the flip side is that the £100k would have bought 2 properties and probably a higher rental yield.
As I said, I researched it and didn't do it in the end though looking back I regret not doing so at the time, too old now for it to make sense.

Why would you want to move back to the south btw? ;)
 
Lucky to retire at 54, best advice i got was from a nurse at a hospice who told me, out of all the regrets she had heard from people on their death beds, no one had ever said 'I wished I had worked for bit longer'

The only people I've seen resent retirement are folks who wanted to choose when they leave on their own, but their company does it for them. Often, there's some entitlement involved and lack of awareness of what goes on around them (as in, "my company generally lets go of engineering managers around age 54-60, and it's a big company, but I'm way too important for that").

boing...they go bouncing out and resent not having a job as being judged (what's usually going on is a new engineering manager mid-30s and working for half the cost replaces them. If the company is still in business, the cycle repeats).

My opinion of that is that anyone who bases their entire self worth on their work and being seen as valuable owes it to themselves to work on their own and have customers and go the extra mile. You'll hear it from customers and clients far more than you'll hear it from your bosses.
 
Dr Bob , I think 60 is my target . I’m 56 at the moment. I’m subby carpenter to a developer in high end houses in Hale -South Manchester. I finish my mortgage in July . I’ve paid into my personal pension since I was 22 yr old , is nothing massive but I did get a bit of good advice 25 years ago was to have a increasing waiver of 2.5% on my contributions. I’m paying in £300 a month at the moment. My wife has a small pension having only worked 3 days a week for the 25 yrs to look after kids ... I mainly still enjoy my job but starting to find it quite physically demanding. I struggle with my knees & back and start to get tired around 3 clock . My dad was a carpenter, still alive at nearly 90 , still doing well although his knees are totally goosed. In summary , no absolute concrete plans , health , grand kids , enjoyment of work will probably decide when the time to hang my hammer up . Great thread this with lots of food for thought
 
I absolutely agree with all that Roy but it doesn't change what I said in response to your comment that it would take 17 years to get your £100k back as that £100k is invested in the property and would be returned if you sell it so rental is income just as much as if you got interest by investing the lump sum.
Nobody with any sense would do that if their only income would be the rental. Of course there's a risk in buying property just as there is if investing in the stock market and if you put your £100k in the bank it would have lost money in real terms. Quite right about location, I live in Northumberland and my house would be a kings ransom in the South East but the flip side is that the £100k would have bought 2 properties and probably a higher rental yield.
As I said, I researched it and didn't do it in the end though looking back I regret not doing so at the time, too old now for it to make sense.

Why would you want to move back to the south btw? ;)

I agree - another issue with rental properties is the risk - you only need one dodgy tenant and it goes from being an income to a disproportionately large expense even before you factor in the stress.
 
I agree - another issue with rental properties is the risk - you only need one dodgy tenant and it goes from being an income to a disproportionately large expense even before you factor in the stress.

Yep....
We finally got shot of a tenant who still owes us €11000.
The courts decided he should pay €100 per month to us.
 
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I agree - another issue with rental properties is the risk - you only need one dodgy tenant and it goes from being an income to a disproportionately large expense even before you factor in the stress.
Yeah I should have said that was one of the factors that worried me at the time and one of the reasons I didn't do it.
A mate had 7 properties at the time with mortgages on 4 of them and had 2 problem tenants which seriously stressed him out. They were low end properties and while 2 of his tenants were lovely genuine salt of the earth working people, some of the others were of the type I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, If he hadn't needed to pay the mortgages he wouldn't have let them in.

He sold them all on in the end and did make a very healthy profit however which along with his fireman's pension allowed him to retire early.
 
This is mainly aimed at business owners and the self employed.
Question is when do you know you have enough to retire.
Your pension could buy you an annuity, thats the income contract of over a century. Annuity rates are linked to fixed interest rates and which are linked to interest rates, which are very low. Annuity rates are even lower if you want an income for Mrs, and lower still if you want an income that increases in line with rpi or a fixed percentage. Expect annuity rates to fluctuate, depending on you option choices by between 3% and 4.5%.
rubbish annuity rates are not a reason to keep working, and also your pension may have a guaranteed annuity rate, seen them up as high as 13%. But in the mean time you could use income drawdown, where you take income directly from the pension fund, either part tax free cash and part taxed, or all tax free cash withdrawals perhaps if your still working part time and used you income tax allowance. Using a drawdown means you are still exposed to investment risk, but does not remove the option of annuity if rates improve in the future. Some pensions use lifestyling where they sell out of volatile but higher returning assets in the lead up to an expected retirement date, these strategies are harmful if you wish to use drawdown, so worth checking.
Drawdown has better death benefits and many use it almost solely because they can still pass the pension on to children instead of the loss to the annuity provider on death. In a drawdown you can select the level of income, up to 100%, but a sustainable level could be equivalent to that of a single life annuity paid on a level, not increasing, basis. Annual reviews are required on drawdown, investment risk, but better options flexibility vs annuity which is simple and when its done its done.
however to answer your question, how much do you need? I would say that is governed by how much income you need. Old rule of thumb is 1/2 to 2/3 of working income. Dont forget state pension is about £9,000 per year. Income you need times by 25 is a good start. If you can get by on £19,000 per year then you need the state pension plus £250,000, excluding tax free cash. Alternatively you can always burn part of you pension faster to allow you to retire before state pension age. But specifically, if your asking this question go and have a free chat with an independent financial adviser with good google reviews and who is mentioned on the FCA register, never answer a cold call on pensions their illegal. Good luck
 
Hi all

New to this so bear with me,I have a just read most of the posts on retirement very interesting,I have a question for you all on my present situation.

I started my sole trader re-upholstery business 30 yes ago,my main reason to start the business was to work for my self,not to make loads of money,just to make a decent living for hopefully many years,this I have achieved,but now at 70 it's time to retire,problem

over my time I have obtained many contracts some are gone ,but I still have two remaining contracts NHS and National Museums,very good contacts problem is when I retire both contracts will be given to the respective maintenance management companies ,both these contracts have big potential but I have no idea how to best use the position I find myself in,seems a great shame to just walk away

my question is , with all the experience showed in these post does anyone have any advise .

Note: there are no family members in a position to take over,and being a sole trader their is only a certain amount of work you can do so the turn over of the business although steady and reliable ,it's not very attractive to a potential buyer.

Thanks
 
I absolutely agree with all that Roy but it doesn't change what I said in response to your comment that it would take 17 years to get your £100k back as that £100k is invested in the property and would be returned if you sell it so rental is income just as much as if you got interest by investing the lump sum.
I think what I was trying to say is that even if it takes 17 years before you get the money back and technically the property is also worth at least 100K will you still be around to benefit? When you are twenty, seventeen years is not that drastic and your body has changed only slightly, but at sixty waiting seventeen years is high risk as the body has already changed and is not capable of doing tyhings as it used to.
 
Hi all

New to this so bear with me,I have a just read most of the posts on retirement very interesting,I have a question for you all on my present situation.

I started my sole trader re-upholstery business 30 yes ago,my main reason to start the business was to work for my self,not to make loads of money,just to make a decent living for hopefully many years,this I have achieved,but now at 70 it's time to retire,problem

over my time I have obtained many contracts some are gone ,but I still have two remaining contracts NHS and National Museums,very good contacts problem is when I retire both contracts will be given to the respective maintenance management companies ,both these contracts have big potential but I have no idea how to best use the position I find myself in,seems a great shame to just walk away

my question is , with all the experience showed in these post does anyone have any advise .

Note: there are no family members in a position to take over,and being a sole trader their is only a certain amount of work you can do so the turn over of the business although steady and reliable ,it's not very attractive to a potential buyer.

Thanks

If you are a sole trader, the contract will be directly with you... so if you retire, the contract is gone - therefore it has no value outside you...
potentially if the contract were with a ltd company then it would be different - you could sell the company and the contract would stay with the company so if the contract has value, the company will have value...
key question will be whether you can transfer the contract to a limited company and that will depend on either the legal terms of the current contract (can you assign it), or the goodwill of the contracting companies - i.e. if you said that you had been advised to incorporate, can you transfer the contract, if initially the ltd company is still you then they might consider it...

but the terms of the contract will dictate the options...
 
But it would keep an income for you into and through retirement, (which was my point).

Take a peek below at Civil Service jobs today (I picked Hertford << change to suit).

There are still five million on furlough, which is an indicator of driving down salaries of employed people imo.

https://www.civilservicejobs.servic...wZGE5NTk3ZTRmMjY1OTZiMDI2ZTY5ODljOTMxZjVlMGQz

Crikey, I can see why civil servants are miserable pippers now.

How would a manager who has no experience generate me an income.

I had a kitchen designer come to me 3 weeks ago, he's a bit fed up with the company he works for and would move for equivelent wage/commission £150,000, he's very good at what he does, it was a no from me.
 
Crikey, I can see why civil servants are miserable pippers now.

How would a manager who has no experience generate me an income.

I had a kitchen designer come to me 3 weeks ago, he's a bit fed up with the company he works for and would move for equivelent wage/commission £150,000, he's very good at what he does, it was a no from me.

Why?
 
Can we keep it on retirement, rather than why I won't employ a salesman for £150k or why CS's are miserable.

Just to reiterate, I'm talking about retirement, my business partner isn't, so the business will continue under his guidance.
 
The link above was set to find salaries between £25-30k. It found 152 jobs.
Reset the filter to (say) £60-80k and there are 159 jobs.

Not so bad given that civil servants generally enjoy high job security, reasonable pension arrangements, decent working conditions etc. Unlike commerce and industry the public sector does not go bust in a recession.

For some, public sector jobs can be very frustrating. But for others the mix of security and job satisfaction makes it a good deal.

I was a civil servant for part of my working life. The sector in which I worked had a world class reputation for its scentific knowledge and output. It was able to recruit the best from the very best universities simply because of its reputation and the work it did.
 
I retired at 50,having owned a kitchen manufacturer/retailer for 20 years.I sold the business and moved to Spain( big mistake)I now live in West Wales and love it.So I finished up with 200K approx and 20K a year rent on the commercial property I used for the business which I owned outright.,and no mortgages.
At 65 now my thought are,1) It was to soon as far a keeping my brain active even though I still have a workshop and make hobby bits and bobs,and I feel I have aged brain wise sooner than I would have done had I carried on working.2) Financially it has been ok,I dont have an expensive lifestyle and I am much happier with having gained more time at the expense of less money.
 
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