thetyreman
Established Member
get your money back, the gap is unacceptable
Repairs to butcher's block
- Thread starter jon_c
- Start date
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Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
It's proof yet again of the amount of intelligent thought and communal R&D goes into so much "traditional" stuff. Step away and it all goes s**t shaped!
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
It's knowledge, which comes from having spent time learning a trade.
HOJ
Established Member
That is just appalling construction, gap or no gap, Pete nailed it with the construction timber legs, whatever sort of money are they charging for this?
I've never seen one with a long-grain frame encapsulating the end-grain.
(it's bound to cause problems)
The ones here are always re-enforced with bolts going through the length/ width,
or a length of flat iron around it. I'm not sure if the end grain parts are glued, or only held together
by the metal.
(it's bound to cause problems)
The ones here are always re-enforced with bolts going through the length/ width,
or a length of flat iron around it. I'm not sure if the end grain parts are glued, or only held together
by the metal.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Hefty!
As others have said, using a long grain frame to enclose an end grain block is a recipe for gapping. Once water ingresses the end grain fibres absolutely noting will stop it swelling. I would have gone for glued joints between the long grain faces of end grain boards. Perhaps with biscuits. Once assembled, job done. All that is then needed is a hefty underframe.
How to fit the block to the underframe? floating tenons on two edges and no glue. Then the frame and top can move independently with no force. And it can be easily disassembled to move it if necessary.
How to fit the block to the underframe? floating tenons on two edges and no glue. Then the frame and top can move independently with no force. And it can be easily disassembled to move it if necessary.
I think in a proper butchers block all the blocks are loose and clamped in by a hefty metal or timber frame. When the block becomes dished from use the frame can be loosened and the blocks knocked up to make a flat surface again. Not an easy construction for anyone and clearly beyond that wood worker.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Makes sense. Hence the iron strap or the bolts through.
Maybe the strapped one were tapered slightly so that the whole thing could be tightened by knocking the strap down, as coopers do with barrels?
Jonm
Established Member
Jon_c, It may be a good idea to post a picture of the overall thing. The legs look like CLS, fine for timber studding but not exposed in a kitchen. The experts on here will no doubt give you an opinion of the overall item, which may help in sending it back.
However, as others have said, wood moves across the grain but not along the grain with moisture change. So you have the inner blocks moving and the outer frame not. Something has to give. Presumably that is why the metal brackets are fitted, to allow movement.
On the superb looking block posted by Jacob you can see movement on the joint. The joints in the sides also “follow each other around” ie each side butts at one end and laps at the other.
However, as others have said, wood moves across the grain but not along the grain with moisture change. So you have the inner blocks moving and the outer frame not. Something has to give. Presumably that is why the metal brackets are fitted, to allow movement.
On the superb looking block posted by Jacob you can see movement on the joint. The joints in the sides also “follow each other around” ie each side butts at one end and laps at the other.
On another point about the brackets, I was asked to make 13 new square table tops for a cafe, and the prototype I made, and for style looks only, I added scaffold board straps around the edge. Looked great, owner loved it.
Then a waitress walked over and made the very valid point that she spends all day sweeping the table tops of crumbs etc, and that they would get caught in the straps as she wiped down the table tops. I made the 13 he ordered without straps!
I'm suggesting that those brackets do not belong on anything food related.
Then a waitress walked over and made the very valid point that she spends all day sweeping the table tops of crumbs etc, and that they would get caught in the straps as she wiped down the table tops. I made the 13 he ordered without straps!
I'm suggesting that those brackets do not belong on anything food related.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Yes you’re right, that’s why the bolt heads are sunk into the timber and then filled as on that expensive one I posted.
Jonm
Established Member
I take your point but I did a google search on images and nearly every old worn butchers block had the metal brackets. I think it is to do with movement of the internal blocks due to moisture.
Here is a link which says it is selling old blocks Cast iron radiators and Architectural Antiques for your home
I did another search for new commercial butchers blocks and the ones I found do not have the corner straps, they use high tensile steel rods. Here is an example. Prices start at £450 for a 2ft by 2ft block. Commercial Blocks, UK Made In Kings Lynn, Norfolk
So it looks like the corner straps are “traditional”.
TheTiddles
Established Member
Cannon mostly had the reinforcing hoops cast into them for several centuries after the built up barrels were superceded by castings, despite it not only not helping, but actually making them weaker.
Just because it’s always been done, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
Just because it’s always been done, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
But it often is and that is why it is "always done".
Well established trad designs don't stand still though - small improvements catch on, things change and evolve.
One prob is that trad makers may not know/remember quite why they are doing a thing in a particular way and perhaps do it wrongly or try to improve on it.
There was a prog about particular African pottery pattern design which belonged to a particular tribe and looked significant, symbolic of something or other - but non of the tribe had the faintest idea what they meant if anything, it was just how they always did it.
I can confirm the above block in Jacobs post is the real deal. Not the one the op has posted. That is a block yes, but it looks like inexperience has left the maker with a few unanticipated issues which he's bodged to try to make good
What is also used in a block is steel tie rods going right through the middle of the block, probably 1/2" solid steel bar with a big washer and nut. These were in the blocks ive seen/used capped with a wooden button covering the nuts.
The corners are also as above, thick steel angle iron, cut into the apron, with countersunk screws.
While they are the preferred cutting surface, modern environmental thinking has replaced most with 5" thick polypropylene blocks, but these are to my mind and sight a bad idea as the deep cuts they attract fill with fat,blood,grease et all and cannot really be cleaned out.
In an effort to be more hygienic, it's been a case of one step forward, two steps back.
Plus these modern plastic blocks cannot be scrubbed with a block cleaner.
Block cleaner in pic - you'll notice the 'bristles' are actually flat spring steel rather than wire and its used by scrubbing back and forth. It you attempt to scrub side to side the blades will catch and the brush will roll over and stab you dozens of times in your wrists. Believe me thats a mistake every butcher has made...Once
Cleaning is done by first wiping the surface with boiling hot water and leaving the surface soaked.
You then spread sawdust on top of it and set to work with the brush( remember forwards and backwards
) You should be spending five minutes at least scrubbing it, before brushing the wet sawdust off and giving it a light wipe over with a damp cloth.You then leave to dry.
Forget oils and other type finishes, its raw timber.
All the blocks ive spent my days on had steel on the corners and i think its a bit like boat building in that you arrest the movement by bolting it together so tightly it cannot move even if it wanted to. The ones like in your pic with more truss rods probably do the same thing, and probably the reason the apron is so thick.
movement is something to be avoided as it might be ok it it expands, but shrinkage would loosen the whole thing up and it could maybe fall apart
They're usually about 6 feet long by about 2 feet wide, at about 8-10 inches deep which would cost about a thousand. The square ones 18"x18" are about half that. Pretty cheap really when you consider you'll get 50 plus years out it.
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That is really bad workmanship. I’d be concerned about glue up and everything. Get your money back. It’s only going to fall apart in time. It is not even a factory second. It’s a duck up that should have been fixed.
The straps where used because of how it was used and cleaned. Wet in day dry at night every day of the year. Huge contraction and expansion. You need the straps.
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