Record Plane identification

[HRRLutherie]

Hi all

I found a Record no. 5 plane in pretty good nick but I can't work out when it's from. I don't have any pictures on me but when I saw it saw it, I noticed an odd lateral adjuster. It had a sort cylindrical end to it, unlike a standard Stanley job. I would guess it's from the 80s or 90s, but I'm really not sure.

If anyone knows anything about the lateral adjuster, it would be much appreciated

 

[adidat]

i think you are referring to the bent metal type, an older plane usually has a little tab tennoned into the lateral adjuster. but for cost cutting measures i assume its much quicker just to fold the sides down.

adidat

 

[HRRLutherie]

I thought so.

Do you know when they introduced this, though?

There doesn't seem to be much backlash, and the machining isn't awful. I reckon that with some TLC, it could be a perfectly usable tool (or at least a temporary before I get my hands on a Quangsheng).

 

[Vann]

Have a look at http://www.recordhandplanes.com there's a plane dating* page that gives lots of good info.

*for chronologically dating planes - those of us with romantic attachment to planes need look elsewhere... :mrgreen:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[bugbear]

I thought so.

Do you know when they introduced this, though?

There doesn't seem to be much backlash, and the machining isn't awful. I reckon that with some TLC, it could be a perfectly usable tool (or at least a temporary before I get my hands on a Quangsheng).

Photo of the plane?

BugBear

 

[HRRLutherie]

Although it has the modern frog assembly, it says in huge letters that the sole is made in England, which simply adds to the confusion.

 

[jimi43]

THIS (CLICK) is another pretty good site on Record planes.

Record was a British company....and would have said "Made in England" on the sole....

Many "Bailey" type planes are interchangeable with regards their various parts and so marriages are often made resulting in planes from two or more stables. You might for instance, have a Record sole with a Stanley frog and a Japanese laminated iron with a Marples lever cap...all would work to some degrees of success or improvement!!

As BB says...a photo would be of help to determine the history of yours and believe me..good examples are great performers...

Jim

 

[Vann]

Record was a British company....and would have said "Made in England" on the sole....

As jimi says.

Record didn't shift production to Asia until late 1990s or early 2000s, while the more modern (ribbed) frog was introduced in the late 1950s.

So your Record isn't necessarily a bitsa.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[HRRLutherie]

It is officially in my possession, and, quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 60s model.

There is pretty much no backlash at all.

It's ever so slightly rusted (on the chipbreaker and a tiny bit on the sole), and the frog sole is a bit rough, but otherwise it looks like it's going to be an excellent plane, more than good enough for a beginner like me!

It's officially branded as a Record Marples, by the way.

 

[Vann]

...I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 60s model...

It's officially branded as a Record Marples, by the way.

Branded "Record Marples" makes it a much later model - probably early 1990s. I assume it has the one piece folded lateral lever (post 1988) not the earlier three-piece later?

Cheers, Vann

 

[HRRLutherie]

I had a feeling it was too good to be true...
Oh well. I suppose it doesn't matter when it was made, rather how it was made! There is less than an eighth of a turn of backlash, is this uncommon for planes of that era?

 

[GazPal]

The lateral lever design was altered to one piece of pressed steel in 1985, whilst the name Record Marples was applied to their woodworking tools from 1988 onward, so these two factors may at least provide a guide to your hand plane's age being no earlier than 1985 for the frog and 1988 for the main body.

 

[GazPal]

I had a feeling it was too good to be true...
Oh well. I suppose it doesn't matter when it was made, rather how it was made! There is less than an eighth of a turn of backlash, is this uncommon for planes of that era?

An eighth of a turn backlash isn't bad going for planes of this type.

 

[Vann]

Being a late model doesn't mean it's rubbish, it means the chances of it being rubbish are higher. In spite of all the cost cutting they still managed to turn out the odd good one :twisted: . Most planes (even most rubbish planes) can be made to work with some fettling.

Try it :!: (and good luck).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

The lateral lever design was altered to one piece of pressed steel in 1985....

David Lynch (of http://www.recordhandplanes.com fame) claims 1st October, 1988, but I think he's based that on catalogue publication dates.

...whilst the name Record Marples was applied to their woodworking tools from 1988 onward...

Strangely, David Lynch doesn't mention this change at all... :duno:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[GazPal]

The lateral lever design was altered to one piece of pressed steel in 1985....

David Lynch (of http://www.recordhandplanes.com fame) claims 1st October, 1988, but I think he's based that on catalogue publication dates.

...whilst the name Record Marples was applied to their woodworking tools from 1988 onward...

Strangely, David Lynch doesn't mention this change at all... :duno:

Cheers, Vann.

Got my info from "Record Tools" by Leslie Harrison . It's the reprint of their Catalogue No. 15, plus lots of other information regarding dating, name changes, etc.

 

[jettagreg]

I have a record-marples no.4 its not that bad really.

 

[Vann]

Cheers, Vann.[/quote]

Got my info from "Record Tools" by Leslie Harrison.

I've got Harrisons reprint too (unashamed Record fan here).

It appears David Lynch based his website info heavily on Harrison's book, yet he suggests 1988 for the one-piece lateral. I wonder if Lynch came across better info, or if he's simply based that date on the date of the first catalogue after the change.

...whilst the name Record Marples was applied to their woodworking tools from 1988 onward...

In the book Harrison says the company became "Record Marples" in 1988, but (in a brief leaf through) I don't see that he says they applied that name to their planes from that year. It would make sense that they would modify their patterns soon after that date. I wonder how long it would take before modified castings would work their way through the production process - e.g. did they still "age" the castings by leaving them to weather for a year or two before machining (I guess not, judging by the poorer quality of the final period of UK manufacture).

I have a SP4 from the 1992-95 period that is certainly marked "Record Marples" (but no markings at all on the irons) and this uses the same patterns as the 04 model (says "No. 04" on the casting). The frog even has the adjuster slot machined in it's base, but no corresponding hole for the adjuster screw.

Anyone know what year production was moved offshore?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[GazPal]

Cheers, Vann.

Got my info from "Record Tools" by Leslie Harrison.

I've got Harrisons reprint too (unashamed Record fan here).

It appears David Lynch based his website info heavily on Harrison's book, yet he suggests 1988 for the one-piece lateral. I wonder if Lynch came across better info, or if he's simply based that date on the date of the first catalogue after the change.

...whilst the name Record Marples was applied to their woodworking tools from 1988 onward...

In the book Harrison says the company became "Record Marples" in 1988, but (in a brief leaf through) I don't see that he says they applied that name to their planes from that year. It would make sense that they would modify their patterns soon after that date. I wonder how long it would take before modified castings would work their way through the production process - e.g. did they still "age" the castings by leaving them to weather for a year or two before machining (I guess not, judging by the poorer quality of the final period of UK manufacture).

I have a SP4 from the 1992-95 period that is certainly marked "Record Marples" (but no markings at all on the irons) and this uses the same patterns as the 04 model (says "No. 04" on the casting). The frog even has the adjuster slot machined in it's base, but no corresponding hole for the adjuster screw.

Anyone know what year production was moved offshore?

Cheers, Vann.[/quote]

Same here in terms of being a long term fan of older Record tools

I'd assume a certain lead-in time would be necessary for the new title to be applied to tools, but goodness knows how far ahead of time they knew of the change over to Record Marples. Curing time for castings could have led to a delay to 1988 before the new name combination appeared to the public, although labels and packaging could easily still indicate the earlier date for new name useage. In all honesty the most recent Record plane I have dates from circa 72 and I've been out of the plane buying loop since then as the majority of my hand planes pre-date the 50's and were hand-me-downs (During and after my apprenticeship) from my father and grandfather who were also in the trade.