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Record no5 Jack Plane - restoration

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Cheshirechappie

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Same diameter and pitch, but the frog screws are 5/8" long cheese head, and the rear handle screw is 1/2" long round head. So - yes, a frog screw, cut down a bit, would do, provided you don't mind the cheese head instead of round.
 

richarddownunder

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Good job, keep going on the plane. If you have deep nicks in the blade (iron), you might have to grind it (or get it ground) to 25°, then honing will be a doddle. Just don't overheat the metal. I have a beech-handled record which I didn't re-stain, just polished the beech and it looks and feels good - better than the dark brown stain IMHO. Despite being refurbished by an old man in a shed, the way it takes shavings etc is hugely improved with a bit of fettling. It is as good as any plane I have used. I keep it (and all my tools) rust free with a lanolin-based spray which I have never had any problem with in terms of affecting my work - staining, glue joints etc. I only use a smidgen and it'd be gone after a couple of passes over the wood - but wax works well too. As this is a common style of plane, collectors value isn't really an issue. I do agree that it is a shame that some rather more ancient/rare tools get over-restored - I have an example of a Spiers panel plane that has been heavily ground on its sides and essentially ruined although it was probably very rusty before that. I don't think a post-war Record fits that category.
 

planesleuth

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In what ways have they been ruined? I would be interested to learn more.
Contrary to weird opinions, sole to side sanded, machined, out of true is no good. My shooting board runs fine because the sole is true, shame some have to spend so long fiddling around with their blades. Decals and varnish sanded away, therefore taking away all its providence. The feel of the handles is part of the experience. Handles replaced with handles from others and indeed from other makes. Planes made up from a variety of other parts. 'Mended' spilt handles cunningly disguised with all manner of muck. Soles painted with c***. 'Correctly sharpened and honed' lol what is correct? 25 degrees? 30 degrees? Nothing is correct. Everything is correct. We sharpen for every batch of timber that arrives. Each tree is different. Each component is processed with different attention. Your plane is an extension of your sole. It has to be right in every aspect. Carefully clean it up, without oil! and it will serve you well. Over and out.
 

Jacob

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..... Carefully clean it up, without oil! and it will serve you well. ...
Clean it up, with oil, and it will serve you even better! And it won't get so rusty and all the parts will stay free to move. But don't have it dripping with oil before you use it - obviously!
 

Stan

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Some interesting points from planesleuth. However, it seems to me it all depends on the point of the rebuild/restoration. At one extreme there is trying freeze the plane in time, as a depiction of a historical artifact. At the other is turning it back into a useful tool with no regard to its past. And then there are many points on the line between the two.

I think it depends on (a) the starting condition of the plane, (b) why you bought/obtained it, and (c) how much money you can spend.

I have found that buying old spares for planes can be ridiculously expensive. If I want a cherished rebuild of my grandad's old plane, then yes I will spend £10 each on a number of missing bolts, maybe £20 on a genuine handle, £50 on another similar plane to break up for spares, and so on.... ( only if I can afford it of course ). If all I want is a quality tool while saving money, then creating a Frankenplane might be the way to go.

*

The tragedy will come in the future, when my wife sells the plane for what I said I spent on it!
 

D_W

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That last comment is the truth!! Lots of tools, too, will be sold out of frustration in a large group to an antique dealer. Those dealers here generally will offer a substantial % of sale value on something only if it's rare, in demand or they have a customer who they know will buy it. Often, the offers are more like 5-10 cents on the dollar at retail as some of the dealers are huge tool pigs, too (so they view lots as a chance to keep the oddballs they really would like to have, and sell the rest and still profit).

As much hand wringing as there is about that, nobody usually comes forward requesting to pay half or more of a full lot's value and then go through the trouble of selling things and eating poo on the items that turn out to not be as good as they first appear.

The truly collectible stuff right now is bright and clean and very original, and what's the flavor of the minute changes. 20 years ago, some collectors around here wouldn't touch anything that wasn't sweetheart labeled. Not sure what the big deal was, but sweetheart markings, clean decal, little or no use and an original box was tops. But the collectors also generally wanted to pay about $20 for such a plane and began to resent users who would pay several times that for a clean plane. An interesting back and forth of entitlement between the two groups exists. Users feel like collectors ruin things for them and collectors feel like users have ruined things for them.

More than once on the blue forum in the US, a couple of collectors pretended to use the classifieds section as a place to look for "users", and then turned around and auctioned anything that was collector quality for multiples of what they'd been offered to meet an immediate "user need". I tend to like the collectors who buy stuff on the ground as they're more likely to buy something for a couple of bucks and sell it to you at market value as they rotate the quality of their stuff upward. They also don't have some snotty attitude about tools made to be used getting used or parts mixed around.

I still don't think there will be a big market for hand planes in 100 years except for something rare, but time will tell and I won't be here to see it.
 

JangoTrooper

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Never use 3 in 1 oil ....any oil...on any plane...it gets on your work and ruins it. If its going to sit for a while, beeswax it. The sides have to be true to the sole so if you are going to sand it watch out how much you sand it. If you are going to sell it on ..you should have left the remains of the decal on, you just devalued it by 50%. They are water transfers below the varnish, easy to make but hard to set on the handle.. also that is fraud cos it ain't original. Post war Beech handled Record planes are inferior to Pre war Rosewood handled planes. If you purchased one and compared it to the post war one, you would understand the sentiment. Purchasing good quality vintage planes is a mine field because they are the most heavily abused tool...by old men in sheds who feel they have nothing better to do than 'refurbish planes' . H*** I have seen so many ruined.
Paul Sellers (and I!) get away with 3in1 just fine....
That was the plan I was going for. I’ve only applied a small dab to the screw threads. I’m using candle wax for the sole and side of the soles for easy glide.


No it doesn't! But if worried about it just wipe down the plane. Sort of normal anyway before you use it - you don't know where it's been!
In any case anything which gets wiped on to the wood is going to get planed off with the next pass.No they don't! If using a shooting board you set the blade tilt with the lever, otherwise it doesn't matter at all.
It's only fraud if you are selling them fraudulantly surely? 😐
If the man wants a decal on his plane to sell it on as original he's probably already know about sources like this. record plane decals | eBay
It's hardly buying AK 47's or human organs on the dark web now is it?
If someone wants to put a decal on a plane they are doing up to keep and use, good luck to them. They are tools and still plentiful in most sizes in the UK.
Personally it's not my choice to 'bling' a plane but that's not my decision is it?
Or are we going to send the rozzers round to the vintage car fairs and get them to rough the old fellas up for restoring old cars too?
I’m hoping my dad uses the Jack plane. But I like to spend the time to fully restore it to its former glory. Really appreciate the link will be purchasing a decal soon.
Same thread as bolts holding down the frog but different slotted head - on my planes at least! Can send the OP one if he wants. Will do the job.
I’m hoping my dad uses the Jack plane. But I like to spend the time to fully restore it to its former glory. Really appreciate the link will be purchasing a decal soon.
[/QUOTE]
Same diameter and pitch, but the frog screws are 5/8" long cheese head, and the rear handle screw is 1/2" long round head. So - yes, a frog screw, cut down a bit, would do, provided you don't mind the cheese head instead of round.

That’s handy to know from both of you. I will check this. I could possibly place the screw head on a sander to round he head of this.
That last comment is the truth!! Lots of tools, too, will be sold out of frustration in a large group to an antique dealer. Those dealers here generally will offer a substantial % of sale value on something only if it's rare, in demand or they have a customer who they know will buy it. Often, the offers are more like 5-10 cents on the dollar at retail as some of the dealers are huge tool pigs, too (so they view lots as a chance to keep the oddballs they really would like to have, and sell the rest and still profit).

As much hand wringing as there is about that, nobody usually comes forward requesting to pay half or more of a full lot's value and then go through the trouble of selling things and eating poo on the items that turn out to not be as good as they first appear.

The truly collectible stuff right now is bright and clean and very original, and what's the flavor of the minute changes. 20 years ago, some collectors around here wouldn't touch anything that wasn't sweetheart labeled. Not sure what the big deal was, but sweetheart markings, clean decal, little or no use and an original box was tops. But the collectors also generally wanted to pay about $20 for such a plane and began to resent users who would pay several times that for a clean plane. An interesting back and forth of entitlement between the two groups exists. Users feel like collectors ruin things for them and collectors feel like users have ruined things for them.

More than once on the blue forum in the US, a couple of collectors pretended to use the classifieds section as a place to look for "users", and then turned around and auctioned anything that was collector quality for multiples of what they'd been offered to meet an immediate "user need". I tend to like the collectors who buy stuff on the ground as they're more likely to buy something for a couple of bucks and sell it to you at market value as they rotate the quality of their stuff upward. They also don't have some snotty attitude about tools made to be used getting used or parts mixed around.

I still don't think there will be a big market for hand planes in 100 years except for something rare, but time will tell and I won't be here to see it.
 
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JangoTrooper

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Appreciate the many comments and suggestions on this. Learning a lot about old planes.

I had been paying Attention to Paul Sellers, Rag n Bone Brown, 3x3 custom Tamar, Badger workshop and Jay Bates on YouTube.
 

JangoTrooper

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Looking on the record hand planes link below


looking at the tote (back handle) I need a 7/32” 20tpi round headed screw in black. Not had much look online. eBay seem to refer to United States links. Seems really expensive to ship 1 screw.

Does anyone know where I can this 1 screw from in the uk?
 

JangoTrooper

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Well apart from being unable to get the screw for the tote handle. I’ve decided to leave this jack plane and call it complete. My dad is pleased which is the main thing.
 

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Stan

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Looks good.

I recommend you fit that screw in the handle. It resists twisting of the handle.
 

JangoTrooper

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Looks good.

I recommend you fit that screw in the handle. It resists twisting of the handle.
I totally agree with you Stan.
I’m struggling in getting this screw for this. I have rang places around me to no joy. Whitworth threads are rare, it would seem.

If anyone can help with this would be appreciated.
 

JohnPW

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Isn't it a non standard thread?
I would think you can only get one as a spare from a broken up plane or from someone with a lathe to make one.
 

JangoTrooper

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Isn't it a non standard thread?
I would think you can only get one as a spare from a broken up plane or from someone with a lathe to make one.
Hi JohnPW,

I wish it was a standard thread. Searching online this thread is a 7/32" 20 tpi thread. I'm not sure on it's length. This is the part I'm struggling with.
 

Cheshirechappie

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Jango - read the last two posts on page 1 of this thread, and the first on page 2, and you may have your answer. Suggest a private message to Jacob taking him up on his offer.
 

Jacob

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Jango - read the last two posts on page 1 of this thread, and the first on page 2, and you may have your answer. Suggest a private message to Jacob taking him up on his offer.
Yes still got them. 7/32" dia. 20tpi. Choice of length 5/8" or 13/32" but cheese head - could be filed round.
Send me a PM (a.k.a. "conversation" envelope logo top right next your name)
 
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