record CL4 lathe bearing

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jordec66

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Hello to all

I am having terrible trouble adjusting the bronze bearing on my CL4, the same adjustment as is on my old Coronet Major ( which is easy peasy). The problem I am having is when the bearing is adjusted it protrudes from the head stock further than the shoulder of the spindle. The consequence of this is that any chuck or thread protector fitted locks against the face of the bronze bearing and not the spindle.
I have been tinkering with it for hours to no avail, any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated
 

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sammo

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Hi
Try giving Record Power a call - their technicians are excellent; and gave me a lot of advice when i refurbished my old CL-4

Sammo
 

Dalboy

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I have the CL3 and when my bearings need adjusting the bearing goes into the headstock. It sounds like you are adjusting the wrong way.
 

jordec66

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Dalboy":i15y7r4f said:
I have the CL3 and when my bearings need adjusting the bearing goes into the headstock. It sounds like you are adjusting the wrong way.

I have a Coronet Major with the same bearing adjustment and have never encountered a problem. As the bearing is tapered there really is only one way to adjust it to eliminate any play in the headstock, but still have free rotation.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious (which isn't obvious to me yet).
The only way to sort it as far as I can see is by adding a spacer to the spindle' washer maybe?
 

Deejay

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Morning Jordec

Is the back bearing pressed fully into the housing?

Just a thought

Cheers

Dave
 

woodbrains

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Hello,

Surely the spindle protrudes further out, when the bearing is adjusted to take up play, not the bronze bearing? The more wear there is the more spindle should protrude, not the situation you have. Don't you just loosen the outer lock ring and screw the bearing inward then tighten the inner lock ring? The shaft remains static, the bearing moving backwards over the shaft, which would result in the nose of the shaft protruding further.

Mike.
 

J-G

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jordec66":bobb0n2z said:
Agreed, the projection of the spindle is governed by the taper on the bearing, that is what is baffling me.
Looking at the problem with a fresh pair of 'engineers' eyes (I don't know the lathe at all but I have looked at the manual) - can you confirm that you are turning the locking rings anti-clockwise (looking at the front of the spindle) - thereby effectively loosening the front one and tightening the back one.

If I were starting from scratch, I would loosen both locking rings - front anti-clockwise, back clockwise - tap the bearing from the front until it mated correctly with the spindle and then tighten the two locking rings until they were 'hand-tight' before final adjustment with hammer and brass rod.
 

jordec66

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woodbrains":7mqyu14j said:
Hello,

Surely the spindle protrudes further out, when the bearing is adjusted to take up play, not the bronze bearing? The more wear there is the more spindle should protrude, not the situation you have. Don't you just loosen the outer lock ring and screw the bearing inward then tighten the inner lock ring? The shaft remains static, the bearing moving backwards over the shaft, which would result in the nose of the shaft protruding further.

Mike.
That's exactly my line of thought, which is why I can't figure it out. I've repeatedly removed the offending parts
And reassembled according to step by step manual instructions, to no avail.
 

woodbrains

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Hello,

Somehow you must have moved the spindle forwards with the bearing, and then taken out the slack. The spindle should not move, the rear bearing has a washer and screw to prevent this, but it could be forced. If the spindle is left static fore and aft, and the bearing moved about it, it cannot be possible to have your situation. I think you might have to loosen everything and get the spindle back to where it should be, then adjust the bearing around that. I did my adjustment about a year ago, so memory might be a bit rusty, but get the whole assy backwards so there is very little bronze bearing protruding from the front lock ring (a few mm only) and redo the adjustments from there. Just remember the bronze bearing screws inward to remove the play and it takes very little movement to acheive this. Any adjustment more than a half turn and something is going wrong.

Mike.
 

J-G

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woodbrains":1fyu8nkf said:
Hello,
Somehow you must have moved the spindle forwards with the bearing, and then taken out the slack. The spindle should not move, the rear bearing has a washer and screw to prevent this, but it could be forced. If the spindle is left static fore and aft, and the bearing moved about it, it cannot be possible to have your situation. I think you might have to loosen everything and get the spindle back to where it should be, then adjust the bearing around that. I did my adjustment about a year ago, so memory might be a bit rusty, but get the whole assy backwards so there is very little bronze bearing protruding from the front lock ring (a few mm only) and redo the adjustments from there. Just remember the bronze bearing screws inward to remove the play and it takes very little movement to acheive this. Any adjustment more than a half turn and something is going wrong.
Mike.
I can appreciate your reasoning, Mike but even if the spindle were to be displaced forward from its correct position, surely the nose would still protrude in front of the bearing and therefore the Chuck or thread protector would still lock against the spindle and not the bearing.

I'm now thinking that there may be a 'foreign body' trapped between the bearing and the spindle - I would certainly strip the bearing out to check that and clean both spindle and bearing before re-assembly.
 

CHJ

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You say you have removed the components several times, are you absolutely sure there is not a fragment of swarf or similar imbedded in the bronze taper surface?

If you have the shaft and bearing off the headstock and offer bearing up to the shaft taper does the adjustment/locking nut still protrude beyond the spindle collar if refitted.

If it does not then check the headstock face where the nut seats to ensure that there is no swarf or debris that is stopping the nut seating correctly.
 

Deejay

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Afternoon Jordec

I've just had a look at my CL and there are three threads on the outer locking ring exposed outside the headstock casting. I would guess that there will be about six showing on yours. In two adjustments, I've probably turned the outer ring about a quarter of a turn.

If you can't tighten the outer locking ring any more, this implies that the male cone on the end of the spindle is too far forward, or the female cone of the bearing isn't being pushed in far enough for the end of the bearing to sit behind the shoulder on the spindle.

Could be debris inside the cone or between the external locking ring and the end of the bearing as Chas suggests.

Could be the back bearing not fully seated.

If you've already eliminated these possibilities, can you confirm that the back bearing is the right one? Record specify a 6205 ZZ.

Do you know the history of the lathe? Has it ever had the back bearing changed, possibly with the wrong bearing?

If you only want to adjust the front bearing you don't have to tap in the spindle. Slackening the internal locking ring and tightening the outside one should do it.

I spoke to Record at one of their roadshows and was told that

1) The bronze bearing gets warm in use and a film of oil on the outside of the headstock was normal.

2) Adjustment should be done while the bearing was warm.

3)Tighten the bearing until you (just) can't turn the spindle by gripping the thread with your thumb and finger and then back it off until you can.

Granny, eggs, sorry :D

Cheers

Dave
 

jordec66

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After several hours persistence I have finally managed to get the whole headstock spindle assembly free from the casting , it is apparent that the bearing and spindle have been replaced at some point.
The main phosphur bronze bearing has scoring to its faces and when held in hand there is no way the spindle could ever protrude further than the taper on the bearing, the fit is just too tight.
The headstock spindle pulley is damaged with a piece of casting broken off the smallest pulley. The pulley itself is held on to the spindle with a single grubscrew, not two with a drivedog as the manual states(there is no drivedog on the pulley).

All in I think this has been the subject of a poor repair/replacement of parts, as in amongst the boxes of bits and bobs there was another spindle.
I intend to put that right and have ordered a new set of front and rear bearings, pulley and spindle
I am a little disappointed as I have only recently bought this from another forum member, who assured me it was in good order.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks to everyone for the advise and input.
 

jordec66

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I called record and one of their technical people told me he had encountered this problem before,
he advised me to change the spindle and bearing as they may have been mismatched at some point. I elected to renew both rear and front bearings, spindle, and also the pulley.
My lathe is now running absolutely spot on.
I must say that the customer service I received from Record was superb, both from a technical and sales/dispatch point of view, my items were with me in two days and the tolerance of mating parts was perfect.

Hope this may help anyone encountering similar issues.
 

paulm

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Glad you got it sorted out.

Wonder what they meant by mismatched though, still none the clearer ! :)

Cheers, Paul
 
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