Record BS250 set up

[Griffin]

Hi, I'm a new(ish) bandsaw owner and would appreciate some advice about set up. It's a new Record BS250 with the standard blade (I think 6mm?) but I just cannot seem to get it adjusted to work as well as I thought it would.

After checking everything over and following the instructions in the manual I was delighted with the saw but that was mainly because my very very old Dewalt saw threw the blade about every 2 minutes. I practiced on some scrap, 6mm plywood shapes and 18mm mdf as well as various bits of softwood. When ripping (particularly but cross cut is similar) the 'drift' is massive, I would say at least 10 degrees out. I can nearly compensate for it with the adjustment on the fence but I cant believe it can be right.

So I did some reading and youtube watching and there seems to be different schools of thought but the setup seems pretty much the same. This is what I have done:

1) Loosened everything off so nothing touches anything
2) Tried to check wheel alignment top to bottom but tricky at the case gets in the way
3) Put band on and hand turned until it sits in the middle of the top wheel when running
4) Adjust top left and right bearings until they just miss the blade (so they do not spin when operating) and just the tips of the teeth proturude
5) Adjust the back bearing the same (just 'not touching')
6) Same for the bottom guides
7) Apply tension (no guage so best guess based on youtube video and sound)

Still not right and I watched another video saying that the kerf (I think) of the blade should be centre of the wheel (i mean the bottom of the U between the teeth). Tried that, made it worse.

Have since tried tighter and looser blade tension, further out, further back guide bearing and tracking the blade on the wheels in every conceivable way I can think of.

I've also seen the 'bandsaw drift is a myth' videos and they have started to make me cross :evil:

I'm guessing the next thing would be to try a different blade, I'm already a bit disappointed that it seems 6mm in the smallest blade (I wanted to try small bandsaw boxes) but can live with it if I can cut a reliably.
I've read tuffsaws is the place to go but which blade ? the more I read the more confusing it is.

Anyone else been through this specifically with this machine would be useful - tips, hints or suggestions about what I am doing wrong ?

Many thanks.

 

[Ttrees]

You will have to get another blade to have any idea what is going on.
These small bandsaws have very small capacity to cut true.
Just because the guides can raise to a certain height does not mean they can cut at that height.
Maybe they can cut foam for instance, but not wood.
With that in mind its a good idea to start with the thinnest wood your blade is suitable for.
The gullet is the word your looking for ..not kerf ...kerf is the cut line in the wood you have made.
Don't ever cut mdf.
You will need a different blade for curves than ripping, as the set of the blade can become duller on one side causing drift.
On a new blade with everything backed totally off I would set up the saw with test cuts on surfaced timber.
This has to be dead flat to register off your fence correctly.
Start with the thinnest timber you have in relation to your blade choice.
Your fence should be parallel to the miter slot(s)
Then you adjust the table for drift ...not the fence.
How thick of stuff do you want to cut ?
Tom

 

[Nelsun]

I have the 250 and have it set up to my liking after watching the Alex Snodgrass video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU) but you've likely watched that already by the sound of things. I did start off with Tuff Saws blades so that maybe made an odds. I emailed Ian(?) at Tuff Saws, gave him the model number and what I was wanting to do with it and he recommended some blades. Very helpful. You can get the email address from https://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/index.php?ro ... on/contact Most of what I've used it for is ripping <2" oak and no curvy stuff I'm afraid.

 

[Griffin]

thanks guys.

So in terms of thickness, nothing major at all, maybe a few inches, perhaps up to 4 (but not done that yet) and I'm only really messing about with softwood at the moment. Of course 'gullet' I knew that
With regard to adjustment, I said fence because it is the rail the fence fitl onto that can be adjusted, the actual table cannot be, you loosen the bolts on the measuring rail and pull it out which affects the angle of the fence. . The issue with doing this however is that even if the fence runs true, the mitre slots will not be at right angles to it.

I'm not expecting precision by the way, I know small bandsaws have limitations but this was the best quality one I could afford and dont anticipate doing anything anywhere near the throat size.

I'll have a go with a new blade, as a general purpose machine I was hoping to avoid having to change blades for different things (same as my table saw it does 90% of what I need with 1 blade) so fingers crossed.

If I fond a magical cure I'll post it

 

[Ttrees]

There should be adjustment in the trunnion mount.
Not so user friendly on any bandsaw
Ian at tuffsaws will get you the right blades for the job.
Good luck

 

[sunnybob]

From your description I think you have blunted the blade. (blunted? is that a word?)

You should set the blade on the wheel so that the gullet of the teeth is near central as poss (as per the snodgrass video) but that is not always the case. Wider blades wont work that way, so be prepared to make allowances for that. With a wide blade you have it running so that more is behind the top of the wheel than is in front, but its impossible to be more precise than that on an internet forum thread.

Once you have the blade spinning securely and safely, adjust the side bearings so that they are about the width of the teeth behind the teeth and only a cigarette papers distance each side.
Heres the bit I think youve not got....

The rear bearing is there to stop the teeth being squeezed by the side bearings when the blade is under load.
So once you think you have the bearings set, push the blade back untill it touches the rear bearing. If the teeth fall in between the side bearings, youve just squeezed them all flat and the blade wont track for toffee.

As far as tightening the blade, I presume you found the flutter test video? Once you're ready for final tightening, watch the blade from the front and you will most likely see it move side to side very quickly. Slowly tighten the blade untill it looks like it is rock steady. Another way is to open the top cover, and ping the blade just before it reaches the wheel on the left hand side. You should get a nice ping like a piano string. if its a flat note, the blade isnt tight enough.

One last point. Drift IS real, but only when you first put a blade in. After following all of the above, draw a centre line down a piece of straight edged scrap, cut it freehand till youre half way down. stop the blade. Hold the wood firmly to the table and very carefully slide the fence up to it. If the fence doesnt match the wood, adjust the fence. you should check this every time you change blade sizes.
Its a pain, but you have to follow this each time you change blades or you will never be happy with your bandsaw.

Takes me about 15 minutes now to change a blade.

 

[twodoctors]

As above.

The only change I would make is to tension the blade before you set the guides. You may find that tensioning it will cause the blade to move (forward or backward) on the wheel, especially if you tension it too tight.

Ian at Tuff Saw. He's helped me loads, and I'm sure he'll sort you out too. I ran 3/16" blades on an inferior bandsaw to yours with no problem (even though also rated at 1/4" minimum). Call him or email him.

 

[Griffin]

Really helpful thanks to you all, it is so nice to post on a forum and get nothing but positive answers instead of 'you're an idiot you've done that wrong or you've bought the wrong thing'.

Had another go at setting it last night (before I read the very latest comments) without much luck so will order a new blade today. I think it's entirely possible that in my effort to adjust, the blade will have moved back and forth against the guide bearings and as SunnyBob says 'straightened' the teeth and blunting the blade.

in terms of blades I understand that for anything curvy the smaller the better and the opposite for ripping so my 1 blade fits all has gone out of the window although I didn't realise MDF etc would also be an issue. I guess it's basically glue and dust - a blade for that or other crappy materials also seems sensible.

Will post when I get it sorted (or not)

 

[sunnybob]

You will really struggle with one blade for all work. It can be done, but mainly is just not worth the time and effort involved.
I think you will need at least two blades, but three would be better.

If you want to cut thin sheet (less than 6 mm) then you really need a close toothed blade for that alone.
If you want to cut a lot of mdf or ply, then the blade will get gummed up very quickly. You can clean the gum off, but then you have the problem that the glue used in ply and mdf is immensely strong, and HARD, so the blade will go blunt quicker than if youre cutting soft wood.

Sorry, but youre going to need a bigger selection.

This might help you choose, theres a lot of good reading here.
http://www.allbandsawblades.com/blade_width.htm

 

[Nelsun]

Once you've got multiple blades you'll have to learn to roll / unroll them. There's a few different techniques and each one has the potential to scare the living daylights out of you to begin with :twisted: It's not that bad so long as you take care (clear space, gloves, eye protection, sleeves, codpiece etc.). Here's a couple of videos to whet your appetite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-7x8X6I3RA

https://youtu.be/N_hhrRLy9ac?list=PLRqW ... uqnz&t=133
^He covers smaller blades around the 2:14 mark.

 

[sunnybob]

Lol, I've seen those scary movies.

Its a simple knack to fold blades up to a 3/8" with bare hands. Over 3/8" and those gloves do become important because of the spring effect of the steel turning the teeth into a bear trap.

I use the hands out palms up, fold over and retract method and it doesnt take long to be quite good at it (the scratches heal very quickly, honest).

 

[Griffin]

Just to close the loop on this...........

I ordered a new blade from Tuffsaw, 1/4 with 10TPI as suggested by Ian. Also got a 3/8 to try later. Started from scratch by loosening everything and following the guides suggested above. Slightly concerned by blade tension but after setting everything up I was amazed at the difference, although I haven't had time to do anything much, a few test runs taking up to 2" softwood and removing thin strips shows that I am definitely getting there

Examining the old blade (which wasnt that old), the teeth are still very sharp but were totally flat so I assume must have been pushed backwards through the bearing guides too far before touching the thrust bearing, effectively squashing them, I wont make that mistake again. I also noticed a build up of really hard glue, presumable from MDF or plywood - guess I'll get a specific blade to 'ruin' for that material.

One question left is that I noticed when cutting the blade does come into contact with the thrust bearing all the time, now given the explanation above that this is it's job that isn't a suprise but it makes a heck of a squealing noise. Is this OK, I don't really want to oil the bearing (I think it's supposed to be sealed anyway but even if not oil could wash out the grease), any tips ?

Thanks again for all the advice,

 

[Ttrees]

Yes, the thrust bearing should ideally not be in contact with the blade.
If it is, your pushing to hard and it will wear.
Kind of difficult not to do though.
Make sure it doesn't jam and you cut a slot in it ! It could pinch your blade.
On Bigger saws for resawing, some folks mention they don't even need their thrust bearing, as their saws can tension around 25000 PSI.
The blade stays in the same position on the wheels with that pressure.

Cranking up the pressure will distort the frame on a smaller saw, depending on the blade width.
And depending on the tension mechanism, you could strip the threads on the turnwheel bar.

If it was annoying you you may want a wider blade
I don't know what width blade you got from Ian, but if its thin it might help...make sure it's a thin gauge though.
Don't trust manufacturers claimed maximum blade width threshold ...

I don't know the difference in the tension required in tensioning a thinner gauge band compared to a standard gauge.
It a safer bet to use those blades though.
Good luck
Tom