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Rebar into oak sleeper

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vala

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Hello all,
I need to fix some 25mm rebar into oak sleepers (3-4 lengths of rebar into each 2400mm length of sleeper).
The rebar will be approx 125-150mm deep into each of the oak sleepers and protrude around 600-700 and be buried into the ground through a course of pea shingle (approx 50mm) and then a 6:1 lean mortar (approx 100mm).

Would a polyester resin from the likes of Fischer or Rawlplug do the job here? I see they note for use in concrete/masonry however I'm struggling to find anything that specifically says can be used in timber.
I've got around 16 lengths of sleepers to do the above method to, and then 3-4 which will be double stacked so 100-150mm of rebar into both pieces of timber, so looking for the right adhesive to use as well as be as economical as possible.
 

AJB Temple

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If I need to do similar things, then I use CT1 which sets hard in oak sleepers with rebar.

https://www.ct1.com Readily available on line.

It sounds like you are building a retaining wall. I tend to use long timber fix screws Hex head bolts, sunk in) to locate the sleepers and then if more strength is needed, I just drill straight through the layers of sleeper with a long SDS drill, rather than securing in layers. Very quick. You can plug the holes as needed.
 

vala

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Thanks AJB Temple. Used CT-1 and also their 'Power Grab and Bond' stuff in the past. Didn't realise it could be used for this application.

It's actually mostly just a border edge however I'd like to have as much of the width (190mm or 215mm) protruding on the lawn side. The other side will be a retaining bed so my concern was more weight against that side which could cause movement over to the lawn side.
Hence the rebar into the ground. I was initially planning on going with 12mm bar however I read that this is too thin and therefore would just 'cut' through the ground easily. Although I'd hope that the 100mm of 6:1 mortar would have stopped this.
 

MikeG.

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Why do you need to fix it? Just banging it into a suitable hole will more than do the job.

As an aside, you know you'll end up staining the oak black around the steel, don't you.
 

vala

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How far around the steel do you think it'll stain?
As the steel will be in the base going against the ground it won't be visible on any faces that are showing.
 

MikeG.

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Check out the latest Acorn to Arabella youtube video for a clip about "iron sickness". The stain there extended a couple of feet.
 

vala

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I guess a way around the staining would be to go with stainless steel rods instead?
 

Trevanion

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MikeG.":d61t7d42 said:
Check out the latest Acorn to Arabella youtube video for a clip about "iron sickness". The stain there extended a couple of feet.
I think it only ever gets that bad if the steel is put in whilst the tree is living and is in there for many years. Had this one not too long ago:


I really wouldn't want to have been the sawyer who ran his blade through that beauty, ouch!
 

MikeG.

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vala":xxm611rt said:
I guess a way around the staining would be to go with stainless steel rods instead?
For a retaining wall in a garden?! No, just accept a little staining.
 

AJB Temple

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I agree with Mike. I also wouldn't use adhesive in this particular application either - I tend to use it when securing oak to the metal shafts that poke out of stone pads for buildings.

For garden applications I must admit I often as not just use timber fix bolts but I don't have high containment loads to deal with. If I feel the need to put rebar through then I just drill through the lot with a long drill (about 3 feet - one of the few useful tool sets I got from Aldi years ago) with an SDS drill and bang it down. As I am a bit that way inclined I do make plugs out of bits of oak and plug the holes.
 

El Barto

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vala":wz7zd11s said:
How far around the steel do you think it'll stain?
As the steel will be in the base going against the ground it won't be visible on any faces that are showing.
If the oak is still green then the tannin will immediately begin to react with the steel. This can be seen in real time when you put a nail in - remove it after a couple of minutes and there will be a small black mark around it.
 
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