Really stupid question about hand planes.

[Jacob]

I flatten the backs to give me more control, it acts as a register.

Roy.

Gives you less control. If you lift the handle it can only go downwards as per RC's demo. If it's a touch convex you can come back up again.

PS I should say - I found this out with some primitive carving experiments - a flat chisel can only do convex surfaces i.e. it can go around a convex bend but not cut straight, as the bevel will wedge it downwards. If you want to go straight or concave you have you have a convex shaped tool or edge. Or if you have a flat chisel a straight cut is easier bevel down.

 

[Digit]

So I don't lift the handle! Simple innit?

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

So I don't lift the handle! Simple innit?

Roy.

If you don't lift the handle you can't start a cut, as RC shows.

 

[Digit]

I'll remember that next time I'm making a cut.

Roy.

 

[AndyT]

So I don't lift the handle! Simple innit?

Roy.

If you don't lift the handle you can't start a cut, as RC shows.

I think we are getting closer to a description of what the video shows. If the edge of the chisel is resting on a surface and its underside is flat, you have to lift the handle to start the cut. What he should have done is first to make a little bevel on the edge of the work, so the blade could rest a tiny way down the slope, and cut into it, moving horizontally. Then the flat underside would indeed help keep the cut straight - and level. It's more controlled to come a little way down a slope than it would be to try and come the same vertical distance down an upright face - you have to be able to get the edge into the wood.

By contrast, a carving cut has to be able to start into the wood at any point which is why many carvers put bevels on both faces of all their tools.

 

[Digit]

e should have done is first to make a little bevel on the edge of the work,

Which of course is exactly what I do.

Roy.

 

[AndyT]

e should have done is first to make a little bevel on the edge of the work,

Which of course is exactly what I do.

Roy.

Me too! I can remember being taught to do this for cutting out a half lap joint, having sawn down the sides - bevels front and back before you made any horizontal cuts. It's a nice controlled approach - no risk of splits at the back, and you can control the thickness of your cut. Years ago but it all makes perfect sense!

 

[Digit]

Yep! I was so taught 50 yrs ago by a group of cabinet makers with several hundred years of experience between them.

Roy.

 

[Sawyer]

Carving chisels, ie. a flat no. 0 sweep are bevelled on both sides and are very controllable. Useful for plenty of things besides carving.

I don't get too hung up about whether the flats of my ordinary chisels may be out by a couple of thou. Provided they sharpen alright and function well, what does it matter?

 

[Jacob]

e should have done is first to make a little bevel on the edge of the work,

Which of course is exactly what I do.

Roy.

Me too! I can remember being taught to do this for cutting out a half lap joint, having sawn down the sides - bevels front and back before you made any horizontal cuts. It's a nice controlled approach - no risk of splits at the back, and you can control the thickness of your cut. Years ago but it all makes perfect sense!

Or if paring off the end of a board as per RC's demo I'd do a little bevel on all 4 sides down to the line (if there is one) making a roof shape, and then take out the middle. Ditto with a plane, if shooting board not an option.

 

[AndyT]

Agreed!

 

[Alf]

I wonder if we don't have a simple clash of two different schools of chisel thought. On the one hand is the carver-type, who desire maximum manoeuvrability of the edge, and will rely more on their own hand/eye coordination to guide it exactly where they want it. Paul Sellers is a good example. On the other is the chisel-provides-its-own-jigging kinda approach, where registering the back against a knifed line or whathaveyou to guide it is desired. Clearly both work, but one will have you more flat back conscious, and the other not so much.

 

[Racers]

Alf,

Compromise! cough, splutter, that sort of talk would kill sharpening threads after the first page, do you want that? do you?

:wink:



Pete

 

[David C]

Just what I was thinking Alf.

Rounded faces for digging hollows in the middle of flat surfaces and flat backs for straight cuts, and therefore straight surfaces.

 

[Alf]

Compromise! cough, splutter, that sort of talk would kill sharpening threads after the first page, do you want that? do you?

All joking aside, I do. I really, really do. [-o<

David, w-ell... that's not exactly what I was saying, no. I'm a flat back person myself, but seems to me the carver-types can (and do) prove that you can cut straight without a flat back. It's just a different approach.

 

[AndyT]

Compromise? It sounds like a good reason to have more chisels than might be thought of as normal - some with flat backs, some without. I wonder if that applies to any of us? :wink:

 

[Alf]

I like the way you think, Andy.

 

[Jacob]

Yes there seems to be two schools of thought. The main difference is that we are right and they are wrong.
By whom, why, where, are these long paring cuts required, with the whole length of the chisel to be flat and perfect?
I know pattern makers do all sorts of odd things but most woodworkers I would have thought not. Mainly because most chisel cuts surfaces are out of sight anyway. Only the edge shows, at the joint.
You need a straight edge to "register" against a knife mark, but the cut itself beyond the line may be roughly undercut - as are most DT shoulders. Sides of a mortice similarly. My big 1/2" mortice chisel is flat for about 2" of the face but is "bellied" otherwise. No problem at all.

 

[Digit]

By whom, why, where, are these long paring cuts required, with the whole length of the chisel to be flat and perfect?

By those of us who don't have a very narrow bull nosed plane.

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

By whom, why, where, are these long paring cuts required, with the whole length of the chisel to be flat and perfect?

By those of us who don't have a very narrow bull nosed plane.

Roy.

What sort of actual real job then? When did you last really need such a chisel?