Really sharp chisels

[graduate_owner]

Hi everyone.
I've been sharpening a batch of chisels recently, and I think they are as sharp as I can get. BUT, I tried them on my (not very hairy) forearm and they glide nicely over the hairs without cutting them - or me, thankfully. They are Footprint, Tyzack and Marples blue chip chisels, so they are not cheap, but neither are they Veritas etc quality.

SO

do people really get their chisels sharp enough to shave with, like they say in the books, or is that just theoretical?

I use 3 grades of diamond 'stone' (they're cheapies though), followed by a good quality extra fine diamond stone. I use an Axminster honing jig, or sometimes an old Eclipse jig, followed by a freehand honing on a leather strop (cut from an old boot) with green honing compound (again from Axminstor - Koch I think).

The chisels cut softwood across the grain with some tearout, so perhaps they are not as sharp as they should be (I don't know), but I can't see what else to do.

Any comments?

 

[Jacob]

I got one of these:

 

[Richard T]

Before others jump in on this, I'd like to mention that genuine razor sharpness can be achieved with a very coarse sharpening medium. I have got to hair shaving sharp when in the middle of rescuing badly pitted irons or chisels using very coarse emery cloth.

That isn't to say that the edge would be much good at leaving a smooth surface on wood, but nevertheless, capable of shaving. I think it is all down to how carefully you get a burr and then how you take it off rather than pushing it over to the bevel side. You can end up chasing a burr from side to side but eventually you'll get the knack of leaving nothing but the edge.

With your variety of chisel make I shouldn't think that they could be all duff - it's prob'ly just a case of practice.

 

[bugbear]

Hi everyone.
I've been sharpening a batch of chisels recently, and I think they are as sharp as I can get. BUT, I tried them on my (not very hairy) forearm and they glide nicely over the hairs without cutting them - or me, thankfully. They are Footprint, Tyzack and Marples blue chip chisels, so they are not cheap, but neither are they Veritas etc quality.

SO

do people really get their chisels sharp enough to shave with, like they say in the books, or is that just theoretical?

Removing hairs (in truth) does not require a super-sharp edge, so if your chisels truly won't they're really not very sharp at all.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

This is just a suggestion, and I'm not sure if it'll solve the problem or not.

One of the snags with using multiple grades of sharpening stone and a chisel in a honing guide is that you have to polish out all the marks made by the last stone on each change of grit right across the honed bevel. The finer the stones go, the more work you have to do to polish out scratches.

To avoid this, try the following. On a medium stone, set the chisel up in the honing guide, and establish a bevel - just enough to form a burr across the whole edge, no more. Next, increase the bevel angle by resetting the chisel in the jig, but only by about a degree or two. Then hone on the finest stone for a few strokes. Now turn the chisel over, and still on the finest stone, place the chisel dead flat on the stone, and draw back to sever the burr. Sometimes, you can see the burr 'float' off in the stone's lubricant. Sometimes, you have to feel with a finger-end to see if the burr is still there. You may have to alternate between bevel and flat side a time or two to finally clear the burr.

Now take the chisel out of the jig, and give it a test on softwood end-grain. It should be sharp. If not, you need to reset the chisel in the honing guide and do some more work on the finest stone. Three or four tries, and you'll know how much work the finest stone needs to do to establish a sharp edge.

Because you are only working the very edge on the finest stone, you don't need to do as much work as you do when polishing the whole bevel established by the coarser stone.

Next time you need to sharpen, cut away the worn metal with a coarse or medium stone (experience will tell you which you need in any given case) then reset in the jig, and polish the edge on the finest stone.

Stropping may not be needed in all cases, but should refine the edge a touch. You can restrop several times before you need to rehone.

As RichardT said above, practice does help. I sometimes don't quite get it spot on, and that's after thirty years of part-time fiddling about. Someone sharpening day-in-day-out will get it right much more regularly.

Edit to add - you'll only need the finest razor-sharp hair-shaving edge for the finest paring duties. For chopping out waste with a mallet, the edge from a medium stone will usually be sufficient. Once the bulk of the waste is gone, you can resharpen for the final paring cuts. Alternatively, you can keep a few chisels sharpened to the ultimate for fine work, and a few sharpened 'medium' for chopping duties.

 

[twothumbs]

As a child I was shown to test edges by running the iron or chisel down a peice of newspaper to show a clean cut. I still do it yet though whither it is the best or not I do not know. Anyone know but beats cutting your arm? Best wishes to you all.

 

[Dangermouse]

Just a quickie to say if you strop on both sides of the chisel you will make it more blunt then sharp.

 

[MIGNAL]

I strop both sides. However on the flat I place it on the strop and pull back once and once only. A sharp chisel/plane blade should be able to cut hairs fairly easily, that's at the base of the hair.
Some claim that they can actually 'chop' the hairs i.e. half way up an individual hair. Some even claim a greater degree of sharpness by mounting a Plane blade in a vice, throwing a piece of Silk cloth into the air and through the effects of gravity alone, watching it fall onto the said sharpened Plane blade whereupon it is divided into two.
Amazing.

 

[Dangermouse]

Yes mignal that's the way to do it. But have come across people who strop the back the same as the front. ie lifting the handle a bit. Also saw a guy using a polishing mop years ago to try to sharpen a chisel, ended up with a bevel both sides !!

 

[andersonec]

Hi everyone.
I've been sharpening a batch of chisels recently, and I think they are as sharp as I can get. BUT, I tried them on my (not very hairy) forearm and they glide nicely over the hairs without cutting them - or me, thankfully. They are Footprint, Tyzack and Marples blue chip chisels, so they are not cheap, but neither are they Veritas etc quality.

SO

do people really get their chisels sharp enough to shave with, like they say in the books, or is that just theoretical?

I use 3 grades of diamond 'stone' (they're cheapies though), followed by a good quality extra fine diamond stone. I use an Axminster honing jig, or sometimes an old Eclipse jig, followed by a freehand honing on a leather strop (cut from an old boot) with green honing compound (again from Axminstor - Koch I think).

The chisels cut softwood across the grain with some tearout, so perhaps they are not as sharp as they should be (I don't know), but I can't see what else to do.

Any comments?

It's really difficult to teach sharpening with words on a forum, your best bet is to do a search on youtube for something like "chisel sharpening" and no doubt a shed load will pop up, watch a few and pick the best bits which refer to what you are trying to achieve from each and have a practise, if it is going wrong then just try and figure out where it is going wrong, the penny will soon drop.

Andy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And it's even more difficult when 50 different people tell you 50 different ways.

 

[rdesign]

make sure the chisel is flat completely flat turn it into a mirror then sharpen the bevel without a flat base u will never have a sharp chisel.

 

[Jacob]

And it's even more difficult when 50 different people tell you 50 different ways.

Well yes and that's why I went back to basics and discovered it worked better than the "improved" methods.

 

[Graham Orm]

You don't mention whether or not you are taking the burr off the back of the edge, no matter what stone you use, unless you do this you will not get them completely sharp.

 

[barkwindjammer]

If a blade can cut or 'pop' hair then its prolly TOO sharp

 

[Peter Sefton]

You don't mention whether or not you are taking the burr off the back of the edge, no matter what stone you use, unless you do this you will not get them completely sharp.

I agree and I usually do this by stropping in my palm or on the leather strop, so quick to do and will turn a sharp edge into a razor edge. You can also ruin the edge, but as with all things in woodworking it’s down to technique.

Peter

 

[Jacob]

Yep the burr is it. It's the tangible evidence that you have actually honed right to the edge. It must also go all the way across as proof that you have also honed right across the width. Particularly with plane blades as they often get hollowed in the middle so the burr comes up quickly at each side but takes a lot longer to arrive in the middle, and can get neglected ("surely it's sharp by now" etc etc).
I take it off with repeated short alternate dabs of bevel and face on the stone , followed by stropping on hand. Not sure what the latter does but it feels reassuring somehow!

 

[Peter Sefton]

Stropping in the palm just bends the wire edge back and forth until it just falls away, if the wire edge is too big then the strop is needed.

Peter

 

[graduate_owner]

As expected, really useful help and advice. Thanks guys. I will start by working on polishing the backs of the chisels, then attending to the bevel and the subsequent burr, and see how that goes. Hopefully it's look out hairs.

K

 

[Jacob]

As expected, really useful help and advice. Thanks guys. I will start by working on polishing the backs of the chisels, then attending to the bevel and the subsequent burr, and see how that goes. Hopefully it's look out hairs.

K

OK except I wouldn't waste your time polishing the face/flat. It get polished with use in time, and every time you turn it over to take off the burr.
I'm not sure where this face polishing idea came from but it's not a good one and not traditional.