Raised panel doors and yacht varnish tips for the weary.

[Ttrees]

Hello folks
Awaiting these doors to dry out for a bit in the next day or so...
They were very damp beforehand, and that was before doing some concrete.
Thinking I'd best post a thread to gain some insight regarding finishing the job off,
well at least for the meanwhile, might have to make some new iroko weatherboards at some stage
down the line.

Got a big tin of Sadolin yacht varnish and have some questions regarding the use of white spirit or paint thinners applied beforehand, whether that's a good idea as I haven't read any suggestions bar one mention of doing so.

And another one for fun regarding matching the coving/moulding and the easiest way to copy,
(for one without a contour gauge) although I may have a deck of cards somewhere, if that might work to copy onto a template to make the scraper.

No sandpaper for the job, so it will all have to be scraped down, and nearly forgot to mention I won't be staining before either, as I'm skint from buying that drainage channel.

Would love to have some buffing wheels for sharpening the scraper ala David W's methods,
a very good watch which I'll add below
I'll be doing it old skool, but thought I'd mention it as it looks the business.

Another thing I'm kinda concerned about is speed,
not for the outside, but for the sections which are covered by the frame.
(facing the road and tool transport cartelINC are of concern, as I don't have a shotgun)
Been tough to get this done, having the doors closed whilst any automobile passes, lol.

Any suggestions about anything appreciated.
Cheers folks

D_W's video on the subject

 

[Bingy man]

So I’m not exactly sure what your intention is regarding your preparation for applying your finish as you say no sandpaper and your not staining the doors beforehand- so I assume your going to take the doors back to bare wood and then apply the varnish. Hope you have multiple days to achieve this with a scraper as imo this will take forever and every time it rains you will be waiting for the timber to dry out again or you run the risk of applying the varnish and trapping moisture behind it. If that was my job I’d get a large tin of paint / varnish stripper and get stripping , get a friend or two to speed the process up and work different sections until complete. Most strippers will need to be neutralised before you can apply your finish and I’ve used sugar soap for this but again it will need to dry out . I think you risk damage to the profiles by using a scraper which will show up once the finish is applied. Using sandpaper is another alternative but best done with 2 or 3 bodies for speed . I’ve always used white spirit after sanding as it removes most of the excess dust and debris and it evaporates quickly followed by a blow over with a decent leaf blower or equivalent. I guess though you will have to decide on the best approach as this is just how I would tackle it. I would use a combination of brush and quality roller for applying the finish - roller for large areas and brush for the profiles etc , you can also brush out the areas where you have used the roller to get a uniform finish. Use a paint kettle and decant from your large tin to avoid contamination and work methodically ( choose a day where the changes of rain are 0%. ) extra good look to you .

 

[Bingy man]

Ps coarse wire wool works well with paint stripper once the main layers are removed. ( wear gloves of course)

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks @Bingyman
I don't think it should take long to scrape the finish off to bare timber again,
as I'll be putting a sharp edge on this accurate tool I'll make, and not using something blunt.
I've found this is far speedier than abrasives for doing presses and the likes before,
but admittedly I've never needed to do any profile work.
(that's why I mentioned D_W's video, as that would likely be ten times quicker again)

I should mention that I may get some sandpaper next week for after the first coat is applied, if need be?
From the sounds of things the sandpaper would need be really fine,
I don't use sandpaper for much but lapping metal, so guessing beyond UK? P240 grit of decent paper,
I've only got 4 ought steel wool somewhere, which I presume is too fine?
and I've heard of not using it for BLO before, whether this stuff is similar
I haven't a clue.

(I've not used the stuff before, nor really have any experience beyond DIY route using regular varnish, blunt decorators tools w/strippers and sandpaper)
This stuff is pricey and I get the impression it is more akin to an oil finish

I've read here I'll be lucky if it will be dry in a fortnight.
The weather forecast looks good for at least a week, so now is the time.
I've no bother with spending time doing this, and applying another two coats or more if need be.

Seems I may need do the job of brushing at daybreak if not too humid, for security reasons.
I am thoroughly prepared to go to extremes to do this job without anyone seeing inside as only you folks get to see my workshop.
I would have an empty shed if I were ignorant about that, it ain't safe where I live.

I don't mind been seen outside, other work is goin on, so good timing,
and I can pretend I HATE doing anything but drinking cans of larger, as I do try to give off that impression, yes I did mention the cartel already.

Seems like this might be quite a task to get the perimeter of the doors done,
as I presume the yacht varnish will stick to the frame.
These doors open inwards.
Only the outside needs done with this stuff, and can use regular Sandolin varnish for the inside of the doors, as I'd like to use the old tins up if not gone solid already.
Things ain't bad on the inside, will likely do afterwards....

Though I haven't really inspected the inside of the frame whether that is as bad as outside,
If so, I'd like to know some tips regarding keeping the varnish there, or not
to keep my workshop concealed.
Guessing a good chance of old varnish sticking to the yacht varnish if even slightly flaking, so guess it might be better to have bare timber as not to transfer the stuff, provided it doesn't absolutely suck the stuff of the doors.
That will be hidden anyway, but I want longevity from these doors,
Landy mentioned a peely sardine can, noisy up and over replacement, possibly to get me irked to do a proper job, lol!

I do understand I'm asking for a lot here, but it's not like everyone on this forum is in "the land of the free" where tool cartelsLTD don't really exist, so hoping someone has done the same.

Sorry for the long post
Cheers
Tom

 

[Bingy man]

I hear you regards security etc , plenty of burglars
and crackheads and undesirable types where I live , I move my tools to and from my flat while it’s still dark or very early when there’s nobody around. The way I look at this type of job is I probably won’t want to do it again for a considerable amount of time so preparation is the key to success. The reason I’d use a stripper is for speed -that said it’s a messy process. Fine sandpaper will clog up quickly with old varnish and stain and it’s this that will turn the job into days if not a week or so . My choice would be an 80 grit paper to get rid of the first layer ( assuming you don’t want to use a stripper) and then move onto a finer grade . As for the door edges -yes it will run and stick to the frame . I’m no professional painter but you would want to varnish the edges at the same time as the front to ensure you get a even coat( s) keeping your timber water tight . Like I say this is only my opinion and other members will have there own ideas but the security seems to be your biggest concern so why not think about hiring those steel fences that they put up around building sites etc and cover it with the screening they use when erecting scaffolding. This would give you some privacy while you work and keep out prying eyes however it may also highlight the fact that you have something worth stealing. Another possible work around is to do the prep on the edges and frame 1st to minimise the time the doors will be fully open and the same approach when varnishing the outer doors as once the edges are done you will be able to close the doors most of the way, at least then they will be 1st to dry by the time you have finished the main doors o/side . Also sorry for long post . see what others advise that read this thread . I’ll have a look at that video tomorrow as I’ve got my son with me atm and he’s all about his Xbox and I have to watch him play or he gets upset.

 

[Inspector]

I know there is a cost you might loath but have you considered removing the doors and take them into the backyard after putting a 2x4 frame/wall up with plywood/OSB on it and a tarp/thick plastic tacked on it facing the road to keep the weather and miscreants out? Get it all ready and prefabricated before removing the door and your stuff is only exposed for the briefest time. If you made them to fit as the doors do you could use the same hinges to hold them on. Put the doors on saw horses and do the stripping, sanding prep and finishing in the backyard. Stretch a tarp over the work if the weather looks bad and for each night to keep the dew off. Then when done and the renewed doors are on you have some extra wood, plywood/OSB, and a tarp with a few holes in it for future projects. It is more work but it is also more secure and you can take your time with the refinishing.

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Is that "tips for the weary" or "tips for the wary"?

 

[deema]

Parcel tape and plastic padding putty is a quick way to copy the shape of the coving.

 

[sawtooth-9]

Strip it
Sand it , about 120 grit
Take your marine varnish and dilute it 50 / 50 with turps.
Apply one or two coats - without sanding.
Once dry - sand with 220 grit or finer, before applying several final coats.
It's good to get to 320 - 400 grit before the final coat.

 

[Jacob]

Paint it.
Why waste time and effort with difficult finishes on a low quality factory made cheap woodwork, which is already deteriorated and water stained?
Quick 10 minute rub down with coarse sand paper and off you go with a tin of ali primer.
Fill cracks with putty after the primer.
I wouldn't bother making good any mouldings - it's only a garage door!

 

[Droogs]

As the doors are outside have you considered using caustic soda to remove the paint. put it on early evening and remove the next morning. just pt some clingfilm if you have nothing else over it overnight. It will come off easily with a soft wire brush and then a hosedown and wipe off. If needed get a small plastic bag and fill it with expanding foam and tape it to the door to give you a sanding block of the correct shape once set to rub down the mouldings using 180g and then 240g Abranet/Autonet mesh type "paper". Give it all a wipe down with lint free cloth and acetone and then a tack rag and you are ready to varnish. Personally I would use one of the small turbine paint units like the ones at lidl/aldi or even rutlands to spray the varnish on having diluted it by 15% with paint thinner and over 3 days give it 3 coats.

 

[Richard_C]

You have given yourself a problem by using yacht varnish, yes it lasts well but takes ages to dry and by so doing risks ruin by moisture and dust. You could use a wood stain, sadolin extra or similar, which can be recoated every few years with just a wipe down, no sanding. If you really want clear varnish, try a water based acrylic. Touch dry in 20 or 30 minutes, recoat in 4 hours, you can get 3 coats on in a day, leave it a few days and give a final coat after it has hardened. Won't last as long as yacht varnish but so easy to recoat every couple of years.

For security, do you have a vehicle you can park in front to block the view while you do it? If not, either Inspector's idea above or just hang a sheet across on a string behind the door. Or maybe an NRA poster, that would keep me away.

 

[Doug71]

Think I would be painting them.

 

[thetyreman]

40 grit, blast that mofo hard with an orbital sander, slap some paint on, job done, cheers.

 

[Jacob]

40 grit, blast that mofo hard with an orbital sander, slap some paint on, job done, cheers.

Yep. Don't worry about the bits you can't see just slap on some paint everywhere else.
Quick light sanding and a coat of primer - say 30 minutes?
Doesn't do to overthink these things!

 

[Ttrees]

Wow a lot of suggestions here, thanks for posting.
I might have to reply individually regarding suitable to me measures I'll be taking.

I didn't buy the yacht varnish, the landlord just left me with that, whilst he has been
doing tidy towns jobs around the house for the last month.
(cheers for the marine varnish comment)
I'm skint after coughing up for drainage and that, and no funds for anything else.
Hopefully might keep him from doing these unannounced visits!
I suggested Silkkens which is probably the same deal anyways regarding application.

Too dangerous to take the doors off and put up a screen unfortunately.
Best I can do is hang wolfies blankeys on the joists.

I have some beams which may be long enough to make another joist a bit closer to the door, and do have a frightening t-shirt which I used to put on the clothesline sometimes lol.

Must add that the job needs to look well for the tidy towns committee,
which is a fairly serious matter apparently.


Cheaply manufactured it may be, possibly these iroko doors were got on the cheap
as the rails have a good curve to them.
I had to do some calculations regarding the spud tubes to make them flush.

Better than tin can any day, for lots of reasons.
(posted about that job last week, as near everything regarding these doors was
a terrible job, as the frame was installed too low and the doors catch on the floor)

Some great suggestions regarding the application,
as I have little to no experience in that department.
Hopefully white spirit or Beaufix paint thinner can be a substitute for turps?

The old varnish removal isn't really a concern, I just added it for fun,
as I have not ventured into molding regarding scrapers, and find it interesting.

Regarding filling/fillers, is likely a question in itself, as things may slightly/hopefully improve with the job I've done, and not the other way round!
I've never seen rails separating from stiles on any door ever.

I'll be interested to see if it may sort itself out in time,
or with some persuasion, as I don't think filling, nor applying varnish to the tenons would be a good idea.

Back to the other suggestions regarding the (reveal?)
the perimeters butting against the frame may not have to look perfect,
just as long as some protection may be achieved.
Thinking it may not be so easy to get away with a 1/2 to 3/4 of a job regarding multiple coats of the perimeter/ behind the frame,
as I have some concern that it may possibly lift off some finish where you can see.
(no experience regarding yacht/marine varnish to know if this is possible)

Guessing the crack on the bottom rail of the left door, may need some attempt at gluing, likely use waterproof PVA evo stick as I think I'd prefer that to polyurethane gorilla glue, which I'm not convinced by for such a job.

Seems I'm going to have to take a bit longer than expected to get things prepped,
as I'm water curing the strong mix of cement/concrete ATM since it's really hot weather.
Happy my poor mans stormguard is height adjustable, which I tested today.
Likely be another day or two before I can even think about starting the job,
as the lawn and other jobs need doing first.

Cheers for the replies.
Seems there's some things to keep an eye on, so a rush job might bite me in the backside.
The doors are tight against each other ATM, with this really hot weather and with the doors sitting flush(ish) now, that might send those tenons home with a bit of luck.
My kit is worth spending a bit of time on getting these doors soundish,
so have accepted this may take a while.

Thanks again folks
Tom

 

[Jacob]

Wow a lot of suggestions here, thanks for posting.
I might have to reply individually regarding suitable to me measures I'll be taking.

I didn't buy the yacht varnish, the landlord just left me with that, whilst he has been
doing tidy towns jobs around the house for the last month.
(cheers for the marine varnish comment)
I'm skint after coughing up for drainage and that, and no funds for anything else.
Hopefully might keep him from doing these unannounced visits!
I suggested Silkkens which is probably the same deal anyways regarding application.

Too dangerous to take the doors off and put up a screen unfortunately.
Best I can do is hang wolfies blankeys on the joists.View attachment 141220
I have some beams which may be long enough to make another joist a bit closer to the door, and do have a frightening t-shirt which I used to put on the clothesline sometimes lol.

Must add that the job needs to look well for the tidy towns committee,
which is a fairly serious matter apparently.


Cheaply manufactured it may be, possibly these iroko doors were got on the cheap
as the rails have a good curve to them.
I had to do some calculations regarding the spud tubes to make them flush.

Better than tin can any day, for lots of reasons.
(posted about that job last week, as near everything regarding these doors was
a terrible job, as the frame was installed too low and the doors catch on the floor)
View attachment 141221

Some great suggestions regarding the application,
as I have little to no experience in that department.
Hopefully white spirit or Beaufix paint thinner can be a substitute for turps?

The old varnish removal isn't really a concern, I just added it for fun,
as I have not ventured into molding regarding scrapers, and find it interesting.

Regarding filling/fillers, is likely a question in itself, as things may slightly/hopefully improve with the job I've done, and not the other way round!
I've never seen rails separating from stiles on any door ever.

I'll be interested to see if it may sort itself out in time,
or with some persuasion, as I don't think filling, nor applying varnish to the tenons would be a good idea.

Back to the other suggestions regarding the (reveal?)
the perimeters butting against the frame may not have to look perfect,
just as long as some protection may be achieved.
Thinking it may not be so easy to get away with a 1/2 to 3/4 of a job regarding multiple coats of the perimeter/ behind the frame,
as I have some concern that it may possibly lift off some finish where you can see.
(no experience regarding yacht/marine varnish to know if this is possible)

Guessing the crack on the bottom rail of the left door, may need some attempt at gluing, likely use waterproof PVA evo stick as I think I'd prefer that to polyurethane gorilla glue, which I'm not convinced by for such a job.

Seems I'm going to have to take a bit longer than expected to get things prepped,
as I'm water curing the strong mix of cement/concrete ATM since it's really hot weather.
Happy my poor mans stormguard is height adjustable, which I tested today.
Likely be another day or two before I can even think about starting the job,
as the lawn and other jobs need doing first.

Cheers for the replies.
Seems there's some things to keep an eye on, so a rush job might bite me in the backside.
The doors are tight against each other ATM, with this really hot weather and with the doors sitting flush(ish) now, that might send those tenons home with a bit of luck.
My kit is worth spending a bit of time on getting these doors soundish,
so have accepted this may take a while.

Thanks again folks
Tom

Overthinking again!!
10 minutes with coarse sand paper and a soft brush, 20 minutes with Aluminium primer and you are half way there.
Varnish, stain, polish on such a cr ap door is just a waste of effort and will still look horrible. Just put some ****ing paint on it! That's what it had on before, use the same colour if you are worried - a nameless shade of brown.
PS you can't fill cracks with glue. Rub putty in after the primer is dry. Takes seconds.

 

[Ttrees]

Overthinking again!!
10 minutes with coarse sand paper and a soft brush, 20 minutes with Aluminium primer and you are half way there.
Varnish, stain, polish on such a cr ap door is just a waste of effort and will still look horrible. Just put some ****ing paint on it! That's what it had on before, use the same colour if you are worried - a nameless shade of brown.
PS you can't fill cracks with glue. Rub putty in after the primer is dry. Takes seconds.

I didn't know aluminium primer was clear?
Scraping will only take but an hour or so, no bother there.

You seem to have a throwaway attitude to expensive timber, which to me is more than money, it's principal in my thinking that we should respect what many might call a "blood timber"

I was hoping yourself, being from another generation would have a positive attitude to
fixing things, and have some clever solution to this possible unusual scenario of separated joints.
Maybe you missed my previous post, or last post, or maybe it's just a case of me not photographing it well enough, as there is more going on here than you make out.

Thanks for the effort of posting though.
Tom

 

[Droogs]

Once the door is back together why not put a dowel through the M/T to keep it together

 

[okeydokey]

Just to point out the poster has been here since 2012 and has loads of messages and reactions under his belt.

My thoughts
As others have said these are garage doors- yes garage doors and possibly in a less than salubrious area so is it worth drawing attention to the two opening doors by stripping back then varnishing etc as they will stick out as something to investigate. Security sounds to be important here!
For my pennyworth I would sand fill some gaps then primer maybe two coats on some areas, then a couple of coats of paint in the same unexciting colour as existing they will perhaps blend in to the local environment. (is that needed? or go for something BRIGHT but bright will highlight defects in the doors)
The drip edge on the bottom of the doors look as if they need some attention or replacement if they are sorted it will help water to be displaced to outside the building.
Hope this helps