rafter woes

[wallace]

Hi all, I have been meaning to sort out my facia boards for some time. so today I got the ladder out to take a peek and poke. #-o I gave the guttering a little shake and it came away in my hand. So I thought this looks nasty. I then put some scaffolding up. This is what I found.

I had a good poke around and my rafter ends are rotten.

Is it ok to splice a new section in, if so is there a particular way? I'm hopeing that this is the worst one

Whilst there I took a pic of my little workshop

Mark

 

[twothumbs]

If you splice-in which is often done, use bolts, perhaps 1/2" and big washers and a corrugated connector in-between the two pieces. The connector stops the pieces pivoiting, so important as you crank it up in line. You may need an electricians brace to get up between the rafters....ie a short brace and a short bit. Perhaps there is a more modern ways of boring in a short space? The length of rafter and the roof load will dictate the number of bolts per splice but probable a minimum of 4 each. A good overlap never goes wrong. Is there a wallplate under all that mess? If so you will need to put a new one in, in sections, posssibly with lapped joints, up/down as you move down the line off set from the rafter spacing. If the roof is boarded, it may take a temporary span until you get the new pieces in. A good coat of preservative is worth while and perhaps a dpc under the plate. If the rafters are gone it may be that it is almost self supporting so not such a panic for temp. supports? How is roof held down?
Good luck.

 

[wallace]

Hi thanks very much for all that. I haven't had a really good look it was full of birds nests so I am not sure if it has a wall plate. Is it possible to remove some of the lower tiles to work on the rafters?
Mark

 

[Digit]

With that type of tile you should be able to lift them....

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... ug&cad=rja

.. but the battens may need renewing as well. With the tiles removed repairs would probably be easier from the outside rather than from in the loft.

Roy.

PS. If those tiles are original then you can expect a wall plate, which may also have suffered, fingers crossed.

 

[Oryxdesign]

Looks to me like you need to remove a few rows of tiles and replace the felt so that it laps over the facia and into the gutter at the very least.

 

[No skills]

Ugh! I've got this job to look forward too, hope mines not as rotten as yours :shock:

Hope your repairs go well.

 

[Digit]

The trick No skills is not to try and do it all in one go. If the house has a cavity the wall plate will be on the inner skin and should be ok, if the wall is solid than damp may have affected it.
Rafters are fairly easy, if they are all in need of the bottom ends needing replacement you can use them, with clamps, to support the one you are cutting and just work along the roof.

Roy.

 

[No skills]

Solid wall on this old crap box we live in.

For clarity (for me, sorry for any thread hijacking!!), for this sort of repair is the new wood just bolted onto the side of the old rafter or is a new bit put on the end of the old rafter (rotten bit removed) and then a second piece of timber used to bolt the two together?

 

[Digit]

I'm not a builder NS, just someone who has had some problems with older roofs.
If the building is really old then there may be no wall plate, equally I dealt with a building that had a wall plate 9 inches by 6 inches!
My method has been thus....
From inside or outside check how far the damage has spread, obtain suitable timbers, remembering that on old buildings the timber will be imperial and 4 inches meant 4 inches etc. Measure the bird mouth angles or make a template so that the bird mouths can be cut in the workshop but leaving the new rafter over long.
Clamp a timber to two other rafters to hold the one to be cut in place. Cut the rafter with a horizontal cut, lay the new piece along side and mark the cut and mark the lower end from the length of the other rafters.
Cut a piece to attach on either side, I would want to see two bolts passing right through at the top and at the bottom. Do not line the holes up to reduce the chance of a split forming between.
Fix in place then move on.

Roy.

 

[Lons]

Solid wall on this old rubbish box we live in.

For clarity (for me, sorry for any thread hijacking!!), for this sort of repair is the new wood just bolted onto the side of the old rafter or is a new bit put on the end of the old rafter (rotten bit removed) and then a second piece of timber used to bolt the two together?

Doesn't matter as long as the repair is solid, the spacing centres are kept the same and it's strong enough to carry the not inconsiderable weight of concrete tiles / slates. - Over spec the repair rather than under and bolt timbers both sides if in doubt.

It's many moons since I've repaired rafters or trusses for anyone but have carried out a large number of felt repairs. Failure is down to poor building practice of using a combination of standard bitumen type slaters felt with no support under the bottom 300mm or so. Result, the felt sags and collects water and rots and birds also find a way in and peck through it.

You can buy pre-formed plastic support trays which solve the problem but are expensive. An alternative is to fix 4mm wbp ply to the bottom 300mm or so, buy a roll of 300 or 450 wide DPC and use that over and bent down as a drip into the gutter then overlay your existing felt on top. The existing felt is likely to be ok apart from the bottom section but if you have to replace it, use fabric underlay (I use Tyvek), instead of felt and the problem is solved for many years.
Sounds complicated but pretty easy, can sort diagrams if nec.

To remove the tiles just go up as far as you think necessary, say 3 or 4 and puch that row upwards to expose the tile below. If not nailed then dead easy, if they are you need a slaters rip (tool) and pray they've used alloys and not galvs :roll:

Bob

 

[kostello]

the standard fix for this is to remove the bottom 2 or 3 courses of tiles, batten and felt.

fix the rafter tails, your splice probably won't need go past the birdsmouth on the rafter, depending onthe rot.

new fashia.

sort out the gutter

felt support tray from under the roof felt to over the gutter.

refit the tiles.

 

[devonwoody]

And I bet that roof tile is no longer available, cannot think the pattern number at the moment but it is the same as ours.

 

[wallace]

Thanks for all the advice, most helpfull. Its raining today so I'm not going up there. It's funny the house was built in the 50's the back has had the guttering replaced just before I bought the house 13 years ago. The front still has its cast alloy guttering and the fascias are fine. The soffits seem to be made from asbestos so I wont be bashing them. Its lucky I panelled the loft out and put in a window, so I have a few spare tiles for breakages.

 

[Digit]

Wallace, Asbestos cement sheet has a very low fibre content and is a Class 2 carcenogen......same as beer!

Roy.

 

[wallace]

Thanks for that Roy, nice to know

 

[Digit]

My house was lined internally with it Wallace and I researched it, the local council were happy to take it away.

Roy.

 

[CHJ]

Yes our local council waste facility (gloucestershire) is quite happy to accept cement bonded asbestos from a domestic situation, in fact I am delivering some tomorrow.
Only criteria is that you have to book in the disposal on a formal basis.

Proceedure:-
1. ring the booking number and they send you suitable red and plain plastic bags and a permit no.
2. you place debris in bags and seal
3. ring the booking number and state which day you are depositing it and vehicle registration and they book you in and make sure there is a suitably qualified person on site.
4. deliver to site with permit number and proof of private address and you offload and and deposit packages in container. on site staff don't handle it.

No charge other than the phone calls and the petrol.

Much the same proceedure if you want to deliver bulky domestic property items with a comercial vehicle or trailer,
(fridges freezers washing machines and the like are collected at roadside free of charge)

Only bit of irony is that the plastic bags have three descriptions of the type of asbestos product that can be enclosed.
Waste Blue asbestos (crocidolite) UN2212
Waste Brown asbestos (amosite) UN2212
Waste White asbestos (chrisotile) UN 2590
Don't think many housholders will have a clue if the stuff they are removing falls into any of those classes. but I guess they just about cover anything likely to be found in a domestic situation.

 

[Digit]

Yep Chas, and unfortunately some asbestos removal companies have been milking that lack of knowledge to their own financial advantage it seems. The advice I received was don't sand it, try to avoid sawing it, (I drilled the nails away and broke it,) double bag it and we will collect it.

Roy.

 

[CHJ]

Yes a guy at our local saw mill has just been done for £600 to remove his old shed roof.

The guys turned up in simple face masks and slung it in the back of an uncovered lorry and drove away.

 

[kostello]

fyi those roof tiles are redland 49's............

and still popular