Radiator advice

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dm65

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Hello chaps - I seem to remember my last watery question ending in tears, but here goes anyway

I have a radiator which leaks when in contraction from one of the knuckles ? at the top
IMAG0922(2).jpg

What I mean is, when the heating is on, the joint obviously expands but when its off, the joint shrinks again and I get my leak (you can feel water on the 'knuckle' itself)

My question is, do you think this can be 'nipped up' or is it for the knackers yard ? - I cannot tell if the leak is from where the cap screws in, or the joint to the radiator itself and if I try tightening it and it breaks........

If it's to be replaced, how do I drain the radiator as there is no drain plug fitted to either side ?
IMAG0927(2).jpg

IMAG0929(2).jpg

I know I should get a plumber, but I want to do this (with minimum flooding)

Thanks in advance
 

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IMO, that's not worth messing with for the sake of £40 for a new rad.

To remove:
Turn the stat fully clockwise to lock it off. Do the same at the other side. Then with a shallow bowl under the joint, crack off the nut on one side, it should start to drain the rad. If the bowl gets full, nip the nut up, empty and replace. It'll take a while but once done you can safely undo the valves both sides and lift off the rad.

To refit:
Hang the new rad and couple up the valves. Open both valves fully and slacken off the bleed valve up top to allow air to escape. When water starts to trickle out of the bleed valve, nip it back up. Check pressure at the boiler end and if below 1 bar, open the filling loop until it reaches 1.5-1.8 bar.#

Job done :)
 
MMUK":1cuv29kk said:
IMO, that's not worth messing with for the sake of £40 for a new rad.

To remove:
Turn the stat fully clockwise to lock it off. Do the same at the other side. Then with a shallow bowl under the joint, crack off the nut on one side, it should start to drain the rad. If the bowl gets full, nip the nut up, empty and replace. It'll take a while but once done you can safely undo the valves both sides and lift off the rad.

To refit:
Hang the new rad and couple up the valves. Open both valves fully and slacken off the bleed valve up top to allow air to escape. When water starts to trickle out of the bleed valve, nip it back up. Check pressure at the boiler end and if below 1 bar, open the filling loop until it reaches 1.5-1.8 bar.#

Job done :)

Excellent Instructions

Vic
 
Excellent instructions and I would add that it helps to undo the bleed valve at the top of the radiator as in my experience I've always thought that I'd drained a rad only to find that there was still some black grotty water inside it that spills out as you take the rad off the wall. Opening the bleed valve allows air to enter in from the top, so all the water (well, most of it) comes out before you take it off the wall.

A couple of old towels on the floor underneath the ends also helps soak up any splashes.
 
While not disagreeing with the answers given, I'd just add that an equivalent radiator might not be the exact same width, so the connecting pipes might need to be moved, making the job a bit more challenging for a beginner. This is quite likely if the rad is an old, non-metric one.
 
AndyT":2wtbljep said:
While not disagreeing with the answers given, I'd just add that an equivalent radiator might not be the exact same width, so the connecting pipes might need to be moved, making the job a bit more challenging for a beginner. This is quite likely if the rad is an old, non-metric one.

In this case these are useful http://www.toolstation.com/documents/se ... &submit=Go and possibly these http://www.toolstation.com/documents/se ... &submit=Go (in various sizes)
 
MMUK":22k6eiwu said:
IMO, that's not worth messing with for the sake of £40 for a new rad.

To remove:
Turn the stat fully clockwise to lock it off. Do the same at the other side. Then with a shallow bowl under the joint, crack off the nut on one side, it should start to drain the rad. If the bowl gets full, nip the nut up, empty and replace. It'll take a while but once done you can safely undo the valves both sides and lift off the rad.

To refit:
Hang the new rad and couple up the valves. Open both valves fully and slacken off the bleed valve up top to allow air to escape. When water starts to trickle out of the bleed valve, nip it back up. Check pressure at the boiler end and if below 1 bar, open the filling loop until it reaches 1.5-1.8 bar.#

Job done :)

Don't forget to put PTFE tape on the threads before coupling up the valves. :wink:

Sent from my AN10BG3 using Tapatalk 2
 
Good instructions from MMUK and I would add the following:

Be careful of the thermostatic valve as they have a habit of not turning off fully. Most are supplied when new with a plastic cap which is screwed on in place of the mechanism but then most people also manage to lose those.

When removing the rad try to enlist a helper, each of you put a finger / thumb over the disconnected rad then lift off the brackets. Tip one end into a bucket and remove fingers so the remaining water can empty then turn the rad upside down (bleed nipple tightened) to carry outside.

Better than a bowl to catch water is a plastic 5 litre container cut to fit and pushed flat under the valve as it catches almost everything.

When refilling I prefer to open only one valve until the air is ejected then close that and do the same with the other one as theoretically air could be pushed though the system. Belt and braces and doesn't mean that opening both is wrong in any way. Just my preference.
I also would check the system pressure if a combi before and whilst filling as it isn't desirable to allow it to drop to zero.

Co-incidently I've just removed 10 rads from my sons "new" house so the plasterers can skim all the walls so apart from the many hundreds I've fitted over the years I can talk from very recent experience and have it down to a fine art.
It is a pain in the proverbial when somebody leaves them on and the water is hot! (hammer)
cheers

Bob
 
Cheers for all that Lons

I will have to get help I think - these things are heavier than I thought - from memory, the one I want is 35kg dry and I'm only lickle :-(

Seriously though, thanks to everyone for the advice - this is one of those jobs that I've never actually done and you know how the unknown is .... unknown :)
 
dm65":1jk5bd8a said:
Cheers for all that Lons

I will have to get help I think - these things are heavier than I thought - from memory, the one I want is 35kg dry and I'm only lickle :-(

Seriously though, thanks to everyone for the advice - this is one of those jobs that I've never actually done and you know how the unknown is .... unknown :)

It really isn't difficult Den but much easier still with 2 people.
I forgot to add:
Presumably you'll be removing the valve tail ends from the old rad to fit into the new? If so, they need to be very carefully cleaned and make sure you give them a good wrapping of ptfe. Many types need a large hex allen key to fit though you can use a large blade screwdriver sometimes. (Down the centre of the valve tail).

On the lockshield valve, I suggest you count the number of turns when closing off and repeat that number when refilling as the system should be balanced. It may not matter if the new rad is a different BTU but worth a try and you can always adjust later if not correct.

Bob
 
There are some excellent instructions here on replacing radiators. I'd just like to add one thing if I may, when coupling up the valve can I suggest you use Boss White paste instead of tape. In the past I have found that PTFE tape does not always solve the leak problem, with Boss White paste I've never had a problem.

Just a thought.
 
Cheers Lons and Waka

Will hopefully be doing this at the weekend but is now looking tight so might have to leave the bowl underneath for another week :-(

Just dug out my tub of Boss White - dated 2003 but smells like it was made yesterday (and somehow got some on me when I opened it !!)

Does this stuff have a shelf life ?
 
Waka":2o51n55e said:
There are some excellent instructions here on replacing radiators. I'd just like to add one thing if I may, when coupling up the valve can I suggest you use Boss White paste instead of tape. In the past I have found that PTFE tape does not always solve the leak problem, with Boss White paste I've never had a problem.

Just a thought.
Are you talking about the valve tail ends or the compression fittings?
I've never really understood the whole PTFE tape on compression fittings thing, I thought the seal was achieved by the olive gripping the pipe and mating with the two concave fitting flanges, but I always see tape on the threads.
Full disclosure - I'm not a plumber. My dad was, though, amongst other things, and he never used PTFE on a compression fitting in his life. Is it just to reduce friction and make it easier to tighten the nuts?
 
John Brown":1lmaeok8 said:
Waka":1lmaeok8 said:
There are some excellent instructions here on replacing radiators. I'd just like to add one thing if I may, when coupling up the valve can I suggest you use Boss White paste instead of tape. In the past I have found that PTFE tape does not always solve the leak problem, with Boss White paste I've never had a problem.

Just a thought.
Are you talking about the valve tail ends or the compression fittings?
I've never really understood the whole PTFE tape on compression fittings thing, I thought the seal was achieved by the olive gripping the pipe and mating with the two concave fitting flanges, but I always see tape on the threads.
Full disclosure - I'm not a plumber. My dad was, though, amongst other things, and he never used PTFE on a compression fitting in his life. Is it just to reduce friction and make it easier to tighten the nuts?

I was talking about the compression fitting, I know what you're saying with the olive making the seal, but BW does help. No I'm not a plumber either, but do all my own water plumbing work in the house.
 
Strange, I thought I'd already replied to this - must be losing my marbles !!!

Anyway, amusing link that John, thanks

I have made progress with the radiator, but only in actually buying one, today, at about 15:45 from Bee and Queue

Also got the spanner mentioned earlier in this thread and some ptfe as I don't know if my compound is any good and I remember this stuff being a messy to use

Will hopefully get round to fitting it this weekend now and if it goes ok I may also change one or two of the other rads and put them in the cellar to try and dry it out/warm it up

It will also give me time to find some of that foil that goes behind the radiator to reflect heat back out

Oh yes, I have also watched a couple of videos on changing rads and they show exactly the same way as described above - how hard can it be ? (think Jeremy Clarkson here)
 
Finally, the radiator got replaced - on that fine Sunday we had at the weekend and I'm afraid, with a long lunch and a lengthy trip to Bee and Queue, it took me pretty much all day - oh well, it was fun in a perverse way :)

Here is the existing rad, with custom moisture trap
IMAG0954(2).jpg


And from above ...
IMAG0959(2).jpg


This is what I found when I lifted it off the hangers (hammer)
IMAG0963(2).jpg


And there's more (hammer)
IMAG0966(2).jpg


Spot the difference
IMAG0967(2).jpg


This is the replacement, level and plumb - I'll let the observant point out what's wrong here
IMAG0974(2).jpg


And this is final fitting
IMAG0978(2).jpg


Now has a slightly larger gap between rad and wall to aid tucking curtains in behind :)
IMAG0994(2).jpg


There wasn't a drip anywhere and it does belt some heat out - btw, I used ptfe, not paste cos it's not as messy

I want to thank everyone for their advice, it went pretty much as planned and previously described here - I now feel confident enough to do the rest
 

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