Quality

[Hitch]

Got a fair stash of pens made now, and have progressed onto better/dearer kits. Theres only so many you can give away, so I did a very local craft fair recently and sold a few for virtually cost price. A fair few people commented on how well priced they were.
Over the last few weeks i have been paying attention to others I have seen for sale, and I must say, about a third of the ones I have seen for sale would have gone into my reject pile if they were mine. Wouldn't even dream of selling one that I wasn't happy with.

Even saw a slimline with the start of a split in it, priced at £15. Badly sized barrels a plenty too.

I noticed a few on ebay, seemingly about the average price like this one Have a look at the picture and zoom, you may even spot the most obvious fault without zooming in.

Hopefully thats not anyone from here, but if it is....well, instructions are available online :roll:

 

[IHc1vtr+]

Like you sorry if it;s anyone on here BUT wouldn't have the cheek to advertise those and i only turned my first pen 2 wks ago.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Just think - his photography isn't as good as his pen making.

 

[bogmonster]

So what exactly is wrong with my pen?

BM

 

[winemaker]

Its not mine these are my first attempt

 

[ericdockum]

Interesting, if you click and see what else is being sold by the same seller, I suspect he has been clearing his garden a bit, or been on a bit of a country walk ..... laurel, a buddlea, bit of privet, laburnum, berberis, gorse... Item location is Andover, so I suspect a bit of a country walk for the gorse.

The Laburnum and particularly the Berberis seem very yellow, is that a natural colour do you think?

Just off to look round the garden and see if anything needs pruning this winter. SWMBO wants a Lilac heavily trimmed I know, and we have a buddlea, this year she might get a bit more enthusiastic help from me
eric

 

[Bodrighy]

Both laburnum and berberis have yellow wood though they can mellow with age. The laburnum would be the sap wood as the centre is dark brown. Regarding the quality of things for sale the two main bones of contention for those of us earning a living are the poor quality work that is sold and the cheap prices being charged. No reference to time, materials skill involved etc. Selling shoddy work or selling at cost price are demeaning to the art/craft of turning. One of the reasons I do very few local craft shows anymore

OK off my hobby horse now LOL

 

[Hitch]

Both laburnum and berberis have yellow wood though they can mellow with age. The laburnum would be the sap wood as the centre is dark brown. Regarding the quality of things for sale the two main bones of contention for those of us earning a living are the poor quality work that is sold and the cheap prices being charged. No reference to time, materials skill involved etc. Selling shoddy work or selling at cost price are demeaning to the art/craft of turning. One of the reasons I do very few local craft shows anymore

OK off my hobby horse now LOL

That is a good point you make there though....
For me turning is purely a hobby that I enjoy, but what does one do with the fruits? Presents, charity donations, gifts... If one started banging half decent pens out at a higher price to cover time etc, its then becomes more commercial, and I suppose tax implications come into it more, then record keeping/paperwork and so on, which for me would totally ruin any enjoyment from it.

Thats one thing that puts me off doing anything more than my local village craft market, I don't want to be selling at a fraction of the price where someone else like yourself would be selling them priced to earn a crust.

The other problem of course, is someone might be selling a poor quality version at 90% of the cost of yours, but a good number of people don't look at the finer details, as long as it looks the same on the surface they will buy the cheaper one usually.
I was asked to price up a simple rose arch once, no problem, came in about £150, a week later, they said not to go ahead because they bought one for £7.99 at Wilkos. :shock: Looks about the same size and design, except one was fully welded solid steel and outlived them, the other was tube, just about held together by nothing more than the powder coating and lasted about 2 seasons.

 

[SteveF]

nice pen u listed there
i may have turned the centre band around other way though
and hide the chip by the nib
and made the cap end close to the right size

Steve

 

[jordec66]

To say that is a 'stunning' pen is insulting to those who strive for qualitiy. It is nothing more than an amateurish attempt by a chancer.

 

[IHc1vtr+]

But it does shine, that's the bit i'm having trouble with.

 

[Lons]

Everyone has to start somewhere but the guy is deluded. He's only sold one and whoever bought that probably did so in error.
I wouldn't give that away to my worst enemy never mind try to sell it. non of his others are any better either!

Bob

 

[Lons]

But it does shine, that's the bit i'm having trouble with.

Plenty of tutorials on youtube re CA finishes. It isn;t difficult to get a good finish on a pen though there are several ways of doing so

Bob

 

[marcros]

Both laburnum and berberis have yellow wood though they can mellow with age. The laburnum would be the sap wood as the centre is dark brown. Regarding the quality of things for sale the two main bones of contention for those of us earning a living are the poor quality work that is sold and the cheap prices being charged. No reference to time, materials skill involved etc. Selling shoddy work or selling at cost price are demeaning to the art/craft of turning. One of the reasons I do very few local craft shows anymore

OK off my hobby horse now LOL

That is a good point you make there though....
For me turning is purely a hobby that I enjoy, but what does one do with the fruits? Presents, charity donations, gifts... If one started banging half decent pens out at a higher price to cover time etc, its then becomes more commercial, and I suppose tax implications come into it more, then record keeping/paperwork and so on, which for me would totally ruin any enjoyment from it.

Thats one thing that puts me off doing anything more than my local village craft market, I don't want to be selling at a fraction of the price where someone else like yourself would be selling them priced to earn a crust.

The other problem of course, is someone might be selling a poor quality version at 90% of the cost of yours, but a good number of people don't look at the finer details, as long as it looks the same on the surface they will buy the cheaper one usually.
I was asked to price up a simple rose arch once, no problem, came in about £150, a week later, they said not to go ahead because they bought one for £7.99 at Wilkos. :shock: Looks about the same size and design, except one was fully welded solid steel and outlived them, the other was tube, just about held together by nothing more than the powder coating and lasted about 2 seasons.

i think that i bought the same one. it lasted approximately 2 seasons!

 

[Bodrighy]

That is a good point you make there though....
For me turning is purely a hobby that I enjoy, but what does one do with the fruits? Presents, charity donations, gifts... If one started banging half decent pens out at a higher price to cover time etc, its then becomes more commercial, and I suppose tax implications come into it more, then record keeping/paperwork and so on, which for me would totally ruin any enjoyment from it.

Thats one thing that puts me off doing anything more than my local village craft market, I don't want to be selling at a fraction of the price where someone else like yourself would be selling them priced to earn a crust.

It sounds as if some of you aren't aware that if you make and sell your work, be it at a local craft fair or at a national one you are obliged to register as a sole trader and submit a tax return every year. The tax people are hotting up on this a lot and I have seen them active at local events lately. If you aren't registered you will be fined.

Pete

 

[spinks]

I wouldnt say I am a fantastic pen turner....but I have reclaimed so many brass inserts and started from scratch with new blanks its unreal....the wife looks at them and can see no faults but I know there is a tiny blemish and I am not happy with anything other than perfection, so into the reject pile they go!!

 

[bogmonster]

Pete, you are right to point that out. Trouble is that this is a bit of a difficult and gray area as I understand it - and I don't understand it that well so please double check anything I write I am married to a chartered accountant though and she has skimmed my post before I submitted it.

Any income should be entered into a tax return in some form. A craft fair one day a year at Christmas probably isn't going to be regarded as a commercial venture by the Inland Revenue and therefore I would think you would be OK to put it as 'other income' on your tax return (minus expenses, i.e. profit), job done. Regular trading with a view to making a profit is a commercial venture and and you need to register as self employed and to do record keeping etc. The problem is that the Inland Revenue want their cake and to eat it. There is some regulation about running a business at a loss to fund a hobby - basically this is not permitted. I pay 40% tax through my day job and effectively getting my tax reduced when buying lathes and bandsaws and so on sounds great to me - the Inland Revenue do not agree...

I am registered as a sole trader but have yet to see what the Inland Revenue will make of my losses - and I expect I will make losses. For one thing I have just written off a lathe. However, I did seek advice and was told that I needed to register as a sole trader so that I have done.

There are many nuances about capital investment (expensive tools to you and me ) but a bit complex to go into here. Also stock is a bit of a nightmare on the record keeping front. Finally, I pay my primary wood supplier in bottled beer from the supermarket - sadly not a permitted expense

BM

 

[Bodrighy]

Perhaps part of the problem is that a lot of people selling their craft at fairs etc have other jobs (or are retired) where they are taxed at source so it never occurs to them to register as a sole trader. As far as I can make out the tax people see it as extra income that should be declared. For me it is relatively easy, it is my sole income but for those that see it purely as a hobby with a bit of extra income on the side be aware that the tax people don't and and are hotting up on it.

Pete

 

[bogmonster]

Agree, for me it is essentially a hobby - I sell turned objects and blacksmith items, but due to poor health and having an almost full time job I can't realistically pursue it as a viable profit making business currently - I don't have the time and energy to pursue it. Still, I sell at a number of venues a year and that does mean I need to be self employed in the eyes of my local Inland Revenue office so I comply.

My advice would be to ask your local Inland Revenue office if you have any doubt. Keep a record of the correspondence such that you have evidence of any advice given.

BM

 

[Lons]

It sounds as if some of you aren't aware that if you make and sell your work, be it at a local craft fair or at a national one you are obliged to register as a sole trader and submit a tax return every year. The tax people are hotting up on this a lot and I have seen them active at local events lately. If you aren't registered you will be fined. Pete

Well that's news to me and not quite as I understand it though I could be wrong!
I am a sole trader btw with my main business and as such would have no hesitation selling my work, logging expenses and paying tax where applicable.

As far as I am aware, there is nothing to stop you selling your work for a profit as long as you declare that as additional earning to your main source of income whether employment or pension etc. I don't think you can be forced to register as a sole trader but it does necessitate filling in a tax return. No so if your sales exceed £81,000 as you must add and pay VAT. The penalties for non compliance are severe.


It is of course benificial to do so however otherwise the IR will not allow you to offset expenditure or tools and equipment against sales so you would end up paying too much tax.

They've got you all ways so the choice is take a chance and risk being caught in which case publishing the fact on an open forum is a bit silly or do it properly, run it as a business and pay what you owe.
Bob