Purchase of a new table saw - needs to be moveable

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CoolNik

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Hi folks, I am looking to purchase a new small table saw. I mostly make boxes and panels with marquetry. I do not make “big” things but often have several hours worth of cutting pieces for the boxes I.e. repeatable cuts. I am not sure what kind of saw I should purchase. The newest Festool TKS 80 when there is a portable table with a circular saw is one idea, or a Bosch 4100XC 10 is another option or perhaps a DeWalt 7419-XE. Any suggestions as whatever I purchase has to be imported by me directly or by a NZ company. In a dream world, I would like the Laguna Fusion F2/3 but I don’t think it is necessary at this stage. Any advice or suggestions of a table saw not considered would be appreciate. Thanks Robyn
 

Bingy man

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I have no idea what is available in n/z or even what mains voltage you have but my jobsite table saw is a dewalt 745 l x which is 110 volts via a step down transformer. The saw (brush motor ) is quite loud but has plenty of power and a good rip capacity . The supplied mitre gauge was Thrown out and I managed to get a incra se 1000 mitre gauge which has indexed settings for accuracy and a flip stop for repeat cuts .the fence on this saw is solid and accurate and can be positioned either side of the blade . A dado blade can’t be fitted as these are not generally approved for the uk. The best feature of this saw for me is it’s portable and can be taken to the job or used in my garden when it’s not raining. Hope this helps .
 

Ttrees

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Probably going to be annoying here, but just noting a few things which may be worth mentioning.

Seeing as you seem to be asking a lot about hand tools, and seemingly not acquired a hand plane yet,
is a dangerous combination to be in, but looks like you are on the lookout for some hand planes.

Noise from a non induction type motor but a universal brushed motor is really loud, and then the dust to deal with.
Not having a DC myself means I have to retire after using the machine for about an hour or so.

If this is a must, then I'd be looking for an induction motor, RK,
left tilting arbour, dual mitre slots, and a cast iron top, which is as long as possible to have more space between user and blade, should there be any difference there?
oh, and large a blade as possible, as a ply sled would reduce capacity.



I'd sooner a decent bandsaw any day, say 400 or 440 wheeled machine.
Quieter, safer and less dusty, a friendlier nicer to use machine (not something smaller though as most under this size is just endless adjustments)
and more suited to someone making marquetry IMO.
A tuffsaws or equivalent thin gauge blade somethimes referred to as "meat and fish" although citation needed on that, will leave a kerf of about 1mm, should you wish to rip expensive timbers,
resaw box panels, veneers and whatnot.

Crosscutting is definitely not where it shines, restricted to the throat size of the machine
Nevermind my flawed design of a fence, just to note throat size, should you have longer cuts to make than this.
Bandsaw fence antics - Copy.JPG
but neither is a small jobsite saw good for this on it's own, well at least not without support for the cut, and is only limited to the room where it's in.
A miter saw may make more sense if this is envisioned, as the folks who precision crosscut long pieces on the tablesaw, generally have a slider, not saying folks don't do this, but I'll bet they
would say its not a nice job to do.

As said above I don't believe a dado stack is available for a wee saw, hard to find even cabinet saws with long arbors + also riving knife (an absolute must).

You might have entirely different boxes in mind than what I have though.
I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment, but I'd think a bandsaw and shooting board would
get you there, and do all the other things aswell, mainly like producing the stock in the first place.



All the best
Tom
 

bp122

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As someone who was in your shoes about three years ago, this is my sincere advice:

1. Don't buy a table saw before you have worked with some hand tools.

2. Buy a decent band saw if you still want powered cutting. As said above -safer, quieter, less wasteage and lot more versatile.

3. If you want to work on rough sawn timber etc, get a planer thicknesses to make boxes out of thinner stock.

For now, a band saw and some decent used handplanes and some sharpening stones will serve you miles better than a table saw will (especially a job site type non induction motor ones!)

I use mine (smallest cast iron one from Axminster, currently on for £599 I think) now and then but I try to do the same job with either hand tools or the bandsaw. If either are not an option, I use my track saw.

And unless you buy a decent machine, the small issues like the noise or small size or dust or the stupid fence are going to annoy the pants out of you, believe me.
 

Jameshow

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Simples - cast iron top, induction motor, sliding carriage.

Finding that in a moveable package difficult, finding it in a portable package impossible!!

Axi / charnwood / kity tbh.
 

CoolNik

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Gentlemen, thank you all for your advice. I prefer straightforward advice to help me make informed decisions and that is what you have provided, so again, thanks for that.

To address a few specific comments, NZ has the same voltage/amps as the UK, just our 3 point plugs are slightly different format. I am a newby to woodworking but As I am disabled, I am no longer able to work at my profession, so have 7 days a week to fill my time, except when bedridden with pain. I am learning to use hand planes (as instructed to by my physical and mental therapists), for the preparation of boards and the details on boxes, including dovetails, locks etc. I have not yet progressed to finishing. As I am having to source everything I need on-line, it can take months to get parts and supplies New Zealand has a small market for hobbies woodworkers, most things like hand tools bandsaws. table saws etc. cost double than what you folk pay and can take months to get here, so I plan in advance. I have obtained a Record bandsaw so am using it for cutting veneers, which takes some practise! I have dust extraction sorted and sanding. I have obtained the hand saws that I need at the moment and most of the planes that I see needing at the moment, so the next thing is: do I need/want a mitre saw or table saw, a planer thicknesser. Or can I cope without these machines. I think from the responses I have received, that this issue can wait for another 10-12 months and be reviewed then.
 

Ttrees

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Gentlemen, thank you all for your advice. I prefer straightforward advice to help me make informed decisions and that is what you have provided, so again, thanks for that.

To address a few specific comments, NZ has the same voltage/amps as the UK, just our 3 point plugs are slightly different format.
As I am having to source everything I need on-line,

it can take months to get parts and supplies New Zealand has a small market for hobbies woodworkers, most things like hand tools bandsaws. table saws etc. cost double than what you folk pay and can take months to get here, so I plan in advance.

Maybe on the Auzzie forum some more local folks could give some hints on where to look for machinery at a good price, say gumtree or the likes.


I have obtained a Record bandsaw so am using it for cutting veneers, which takes some practise! I have dust extraction sorted and sanding.

I have obtained the hand saws that I need at the moment and most of the planes that I see needing at the moment, so the next thing is: do I need/want a mitre saw or table saw, a planer thicknesser. Or can I cope without these machines. I think from the responses I have received, that this issue can wait for another 10-12 months and be reviewed then.

Sounds like quite a small machine, which is IMO a completely different animal to what one might want if looking to prepare timber for the likes of multiple boxes or furniture components, and not just a small box or two.

I suppose looking into what timber yards can provide you/whatever timbers you happen to acquire might be the best way to approach this,
should some jarrah sleepers be local and a good price, a decent bandsaw might be the ticket,
alternatively if you can acquire whatever timbers you want, in the thickness you want
roughsawn or skip planed timbers whatever, at a reasonable cost, then you might value the tablesaw for ripping stock in a more production environment.


One could reasonably argue a decent bandsaw is more suited for more exotic timbers, and into a
that side of refined furniture making,
Compared to the tablesaw more suited to lesser exotic timbers, and more production sort of environment using common hardwoods and everything in between, more suited to the business side of things.

But that's my perspective, never having bought any decent timbers in a proper timberyard,
it is hard to get an idea of how thick a wallet one would need, shop around and all that ect,
about the best info I've seen on the price of timbers are on some of the UK youtubes,
just walking around noting the cost whats written on the planks,
Should there be some yards local to you and have some online presence, it may provide one with
some idea of what may be reasonable pay and possibly highlight the need for a tool then.

I bought a large bandsaw as I had some idea of a luthiere workshop at one time,
and was thinking I'd eventually find some Brazilian rosewood table worth its weight in gold
which would provide me with all the loot I'd ever want.
Then one day I found a skip, and another... with some iroko
and whilst tinkering at me new machine, watching some youtubes on the matter,
Local to this forum, good fella by of the name of Steve Maskery mentioned a hand tool youtuber from Canada by the name of Rob Cosman.

This guy made me never want to touch a sander again, having been sanding thick paint off multiple iroko doors, you'd need a Bill Pentz 5hp cyclone for that craic.
Certainly not a tool for a sander I was to learn.
Infact I, among many others will do anything in order not to sand anything if possible,
and learn to do it the clean quick skillful method, regardless of how much of a rabbit hole it may lead down to.
Rob has a cheesy line which you've probably heard of already...
"I've never coughed up a shaving"

It goes with the rhetoric of hand tool focused work, and the fact that if you want to use the TS or other heavy sanding use very frequently , then you'd need a costly large extraction system, as the ones with the bags are only fine (most dangerous) dust air separators, and therefore act as fine dust spreaders !

I suspect a track saw might fair somewhat better than say a tablesaw, say if you have a small High pressure low volume HPLV system, but would think a tablesaw or mitre saw would need a high volume low pressure system to be able to cope with a large area of fine dust, and a not so portable contraption on the latter.

The bandsaw, (a decent one which can cut the timber efficiently with correct tooth count)
pulls the dust down into the machine, and doesn't fling it into the air so much as a circular sawblade will, so worth considering upgrading by the sounds of it.


Good luck
Tom
 
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Bingy man

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Gentlemen, thank you all for your advice. I prefer straightforward advice to help me make informed decisions and that is what you have provided, so again, thanks for that.

To address a few specific comments, NZ has the same voltage/amps as the UK, just our 3 point plugs are slightly different format. I am a newby to woodworking but As I am disabled, I am no longer able to work at my profession, so have 7 days a week to fill my time, except when bedridden with pain. I am learning to use hand planes (as instructed to by my physical and mental therapists), for the preparation of boards and the details on boxes, including dovetails, locks etc. I have not yet progressed to finishing. As I am having to source everything I need on-line, it can take months to get parts and supplies New Zealand has a small market for hobbies woodworkers, most things like hand tools bandsaws. table saws etc. cost double than what you folk pay and can take months to get here, so I plan in advance. I have obtained a Record bandsaw so am using it for cutting veneers, which takes some practise! I have dust extraction sorted and sanding. I have obtained the hand saws that I need at the moment and most of the planes that I see needing at the moment, so the next thing is: do I need/want a mitre saw or table saw, a planer thicknesser. Or can I cope without these machines. I think from the responses I have received, that this issue can wait for another 10-12 months and be reviewed then.
With the greatest of respect as you have said in your latest post your disabled-would this prevent you from operating such machines safely. As others have mentioned a table saw can inflict serious injuries and again you say you are new to woodworking so I’d agree with getting to grips with hand tools before moving onto t/saws and planers etc . I also agree that a bandsaw is of more use to you for making boxes (you said originally only small projects) so you could probably get away with a smaller machine. Sourcing planed all round timber could be a better option if getting these type of machines is difficult due to your location. I agree with you regarding spending your time doing something to occupy your time and next to fishing and gardening woodworking is extremely satisfying and rewarding. But above all this is your safety and this would be my 1st priority. at least if you’ve spent a fair amount of time with hand tools this in itself will identify any weak areas where a machine might improve your results. I recall a time at work in a customer’s house ( customer was completely blind ) and he offered me a cup of coffee. I told myself that it’s probably going to be the worst coffee ever as he can’t see anything “he,s blind” how wrong was I -it was as if made by a professional barrister. I was lost for words but managed to ask how he managed to do it - he showed me a little device that bleeped when the hot water reached it and the same again for the milk and he of course new where everything in his home was . So please don’t think I’m doubting your ability’s -just a word of caution ⚠️ regarding safety . I salute you and wish you every success in your projects. Patrick
 

CoolNik

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With the greatest of respect as you have said in your latest post your disabled-would this prevent you from operating such machines safely. As others have mentioned a table saw can inflict serious injuries and again you say you are new to woodworking so I’d agree with getting to grips with hand tools before moving onto t/saws and planers etc . I also agree that a bandsaw is of more use to you for making boxes (you said originally only small projects) so you could probably get away with a smaller machine. Sourcing planed all round timber could be a better option if getting these type of machines is difficult due to your location. I agree with you regarding spending your time doing something to occupy your time and next to fishing and gardening woodworking is extremely satisfying and rewarding. But above all this is your safety and this would be my 1st priority. at least if you’ve spent a fair amount of time with hand tools this in itself will identify any weak areas where a machine might improve your results. I recall a time at work in a customer’s house ( customer was completely blind ) and he offered me a cup of coffee. I told myself that it’s probably going to be the worst coffee ever as he can’t see anything “he,s blind” how wrong was I -it was as if made by a professional barrister. I was lost for words but managed to ask how he managed to do it - he showed me a little device that bleeped when the hot water reached it and the same again for the milk and he of course new where everything in his home was . So please don’t think I’m doubting your ability’s -just a word of caution ⚠ regarding safety . I salute you and wish you every success in your projects. Patrick
Thanks Patrick for your comments. When I say that I don’t have any woodworking experience, I do have some experience with hand saws, drills a circular saw etc from before I became sick as I was one of those people who put up shelves, hung paintings, curtains etc. made a bench and seat for the patio. (just rough, no plan) so have a little Idea but now I am getting a little more serious but it still will be for my pleasure or friends not for business.
anyway, I take your concerns about safety seriously and will ensure that whatever items I purchase will meet those concerns. Thanks Robyn
 

Bingy man

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Thanks Patrick for your comments. When I say that I don’t have any woodworking experience, I do have some experience with hand saws, drills a circular saw etc from before I became sick as I was one of those people who put up shelves, hung paintings, curtains etc. made a bench and seat for the patio. (just rough, no plan) so have a little Idea but now I am getting a little more serious but it still will be for my pleasure or friends not for business.
anyway, I take your concerns about safety seriously and will ensure that whatever items I purchase will meet those concerns. Thanks Robyn
Well tbh that’s sort of how I started aged ten -a few cheap hand tools , scraps of wood scavenged from building sites and skips and the absence of any my dad I became the” man of the house “ as the saying goes - shelves , doors and any other repairs-this then spread to family and friends and here I am 47 years later . I moved to woodworking machines a few years back and due to a few near misses joined this forum for help and advise from others and of course to give help and advise to others . So I’d say “ fill ya boots” and enjoy your time because 7 days of doing nothing will become a life sentence in itself- proceed slowly and maybe have another friend or family member to hand just in case you got into difficulties. I’ll look forward to seeing pics of your work . Take care -Patrick
 

hugov

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I would say if you want portable, just get a reasonably cheap one. If you stick with the hobby and end up setting up a workshop, that's the time to look into getting a "proper" cast iron cabinet saw. In my opinion, fancy portable saws like the TKS 80 aren't worth it for home workshop use, you're better getting a proper cabinet saw.

I have a Bosch GTS 10 J which is available in NZ, well built, light and portable, and easy to adjust into alignment. The fence is fine, but not as good as the Dewalt ones. In the UK they're around £400 including 20% VAT, but in NZ they seem to be about NZ$1125 including 15% GST, which is 50% more. No idea why they're so much more expensive there.
 

Sideways

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I wouldn't normally suggest something as costly, but might this suit your work ?

Manual, quiet, precise. I could imagine it being suited to cutting marquetry pieces so maybe an alternative.

Back to the table saw, I'd be looking at a small induction motor saw 8" blade / 1100W motor is probably ample.
You'll struggle to find a good new one with an accurate sliding fence that goes right to the blade so perhaps a modern copy of the classic Kity 419 and spend some time and care to make a really good quality sled to use on top. Make one with a good blade guard built in.
 

gmgmgm

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I'd echo the positive comments about a bandsaw. Very useful for making boxes (perhaps more useful than a table saw) and inherently far far safer. It's too easy to reach across a table saw blade...

And in my limited experience, decent bandsaws are much cheaper and more easy to find than decent table saws, which might be helpful in NZ.
 

SamG340

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I've got the DeWalt 7485gb , think it's very similar to the 7419 you're looking at. Nice, accurate, relatively quiet ( relatively lol). I'd recommend it
 

h-magic

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Hi I have the dewalt DW745 and I must say it is a nice saw only because of the fine adjustment to the fence. Only down side to that saw is dust collection and that super loud motor.
i also have the Élu flip over saw and I enjoy using that since it’s not so loud but the fence adjustment is poor compared to the dewalt.
Only way I can compare the noise is a Diesel engine vs a Toyota petrol engine.
Other way around it is using ear defenders which i know use when using the Dewalt.
Blade change is so easy and it’s portable so you can just put it away after use.

since your starting why don’t you have a look at the festool MFT table.
you still can make repeat cuts and it’s got more than function. You then also will have a choice of three different tool or probably more.
1. Circular saw
2. Workbench with bench holes
3. Rail guide which can be used with a router as well.

I’ve got to add to what other members have mentioned table saws are lethal I’ve had a few near misses on them.
my dad has lost fingers tip and I’ve cut mine near the bone.
Only takes a split second.
Have a look at auction sites or closing down factory there’s always a bargain to be had if you look hard enough and with patience.

and the type of saw your looking for are also known as cabinet saw.
 

CoolNik

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I wouldn't normally suggest something as costly, but might this suit your work ?

Manual, quiet, precise. I could imagine it being suited to cutting marquetry pieces so maybe an alternative.

Back to the table saw, I'd be looking at a small induction motor saw 8" blade / 1100W motor is probably ample.
You'll struggle to find a good new one with an accurate sliding fence that goes right to the blade so perhaps a modern copy of the classic Kity 419 and spend some time and care to make a really good quality sled to use on top. Make one with a good blade guard built in.
I have had a look at the Bridge City option and am seriously thinking about it as a possibility down the path a bit. Thank you for that suggestion!!
 

CoolNik

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Hi I have the dewalt DW745 and I must say it is a nice saw only because of the fine adjustment to the fence. Only down side to that saw is dust collection and that super loud motor.
i also have the Élu flip over saw and I enjoy using that since it’s not so loud but the fence adjustment is poor compared to the dewalt.
Only way I can compare the noise is a Diesel engine vs a Toyota petrol engine.
Other way around it is using ear defenders which i know use when using the Dewalt.
Blade change is so easy and it’s portable so you can just put it away after use.

since your starting why don’t you have a look at the festool MFT table.
you still can make repeat cuts and it’s got more than function. You then also will have a choice of three different tool or probably more.
1. Circular saw
2. Workbench with bench holes
3. Rail guide which can be used with a router as well.

I’ve got to add to what other members have mentioned table saws are lethal I’ve had a few near misses on them.
my dad has lost fingers tip and I’ve cut mine near the bone.
Only takes a split second.
Have a look at auction sites or closing down factory there’s always a bargain to be had if you look hard enough and with patience.

and the type of saw your looking for are also known as cabinet saw.
Will look at the Festool option if I decide to go ahead with the power saw - it makes more sense than a bigger cabinet saw. I will also think about the Bridge City option, which although expensive may be sufficient for my immediate needs. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheers Robyn
 

Jameshow

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Look at a kity 419 nice, compact and reliable, or aximinsters craft one. There must be importers of Chinese tools in Oz / NZ??
 

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