Public sector strikes

[henton49er]

My pension contributions changed from 5.5% to nearly 8% of my salary and the final salary pension scheme was scrapped in favour of a CARE (Career Average Relative Earnings) pension. Do I have sympathy with the public secor workers ... not a jot. My company made the changes so that they could stay in business and offer a reasonable pension; the government is seeking to do the same for staff that they employ. Get back to work!!!

Mike.

 

[tomatwark]

I can understand that the current staff being angry about changes to something they have agreed too.

But this needs to be introduced to at least new staff as we can't afford to keep this scheme in place in the long term.

I pay into my private pension every month and I won't get any where near to the people in the public sector, and will have to work to I am at least 70. But that is my choice.

This head butting between the LibCon government and the unions only benefits the union bosses who need to justify their £100k+ salaries by being seen to be doing something.

In the end, as always a compromise will be reached which will have cost millions of pounds and caused a lot of bad feeling between the public and private sectors.

The union bosses and the government will be patting each other on the backs saying how well they did.

Tom

 

[Ring]

Well as an Ambulance driver with 22 years service and having another 17 years to work i can assure you my pension will be no golden handshake if im lucky to make it to pension age i will get about 15/18k lump sum and £600 Per month and at the age of 67 they will still expect me to carry chair/stretcher people out of their homes,i was a joiner to trade but i looked at the long term employment my choice yes but i signed up to the nhs because of the pension and job security the same as millions of others did they made that choice but not for any goverment to hack this whole country to bits while the rich get richer and the working man suffers again.My brother inlaw worked for the ici retired at 55 and has got more of a pension as i have as a wage thats a Golden Handshake pension. :evil: :evil: sorry rant over
Jim

 

[beech1948]

Jacob,
Anarchist nonit at all. In fact I feel only contempt for those poor thoughtless idjits. Rather I'm a 63 yr old who has had it up to there with the plastic, cosmetic politions who lack any vision and means to deliver what we need. I think I will become an MP and change from inside.
Al

 

[Modernist]

Jacob,
I'm a 63 yr old who has had it up to there with the plastic, cosmetic politions who lack any vision and means to deliver what we need. I think I will become an MP and change from inside.
Al

Then we do have something in common except I wouldn't dream of being an MP , a nightmare.

 

[Allylearm]

But we are all in it together. Except if you can set your own wages and pensions like the MP's or CEO of some bank or other obscene large conglomerate.

As for Private and Public, please don't the real question is why do the private not have same pension rights as the public. You do not negotiate down but bring the down up. As for golden handshakes, a real myth when you do the sums or the other one the public sector pensions do not finance themselves, just like the minority of private sector paying themselves 40%+ wage rises or getting millions in bonus. Other point the Civil Service also pay tax and NI so the private pay tax and NI as well. You could be perverse and say CS pay for themselves. To start a discussion you must look at the mean average you are talking about. In this case part time and female workers who have not a long service but paid pittance and doing the unpopular positions in society. We have a need for them but they are great unvoiced so cannot defend themselves. Are we such a society that we put worker against worker. The better off against the poorer, how sad has this country become.

Next thing I read was that £20 billion was being found to start growth in a few years, only thing is Danny (the ostrich) Alexander does not know where he is getting it. More flawed and not well thought conclusions from a devoid govt amalgamated for self need rather than for deed. David Cameron has been rather subdued as well not getting down to his shirt sleeve rolled up look. But it usual for him a devoid politician who only is good for a sound bite, weak willed just like George who is not allowed out to speak unless chaperoned. This is what happens when you let the non qualified run a country. Non of parties got the votes needed so we end up with a put together lot who are all now so joined there is no joining line. Clegg history will be a demise of a party he led.

As for some unions, they have more members than the the Liberals and Conservatives combined. In Scotland for example the Conservatives have less than 7000 members, do we really think that 0.1% of a population of Scotland have right to lead or tell anyone what is best. That is the problem endemic of politics in this country. We are being run by minorities who do not speak for the populace but for there own well being and continued riches for their own elite. The public only go from one crisis to another and are fully supporting as long as it does not cost them or change there way of life.

Who did not see the total destruction of a manufacturing economy and the loss of the century old Apprenticeship system would result in a loss of world lead in manufacturing or design. Well the Tories and Maggie did not, the obscene get rich quick thinking and short term investment was our ruin. How embarrassing is the slogan of that era "Loads of Money" funny on hind sight its cruel that it should define that era. Like a lot of occurrences in life they go in circles. Thatcher started it and New Labour bought in to it. Without variance in views or the stifling independent thought we get this result, when does a politician state his real opinion only when he has no chance to govern thats what. As for Lib Dem we see an end of a political party. My thoughts one down and a few more to go, the only real thing to come out the euro demise in Italy and Greece is that it's leadership has changed to people who know what economics is about, not sound bite or short term gains for their buddies or what shares they own or boards they belong. The obscenity is that we all stood by and let it happen, for what short monetary gain, a disease afflicting humans from time in memoriam we are no better than what we sow.

 

[monkeybiter]

I'm lucky to still be in a final salary pension, but it was reduced a couple of years ago, at a higher cost. I could strike of course, wouldn't be much point in returning to work after I'd made my point. People all over the country have lost jobs, I appreciate my good fortune but realise it could easily change.

My son is a sole trader working on his own two market stalls. Today the strikes mean the market is shut and he can't work/earn.

I have sympathy for others who's terms and conditions/benefits also change, but the scattergun tactic of striking isn't appropriate.

 

[beech1948]

Jacob,
I'm a 63 yr old who has had it up to there with the plastic, cosmetic politions who lack any vision and means to deliver what we need. I think I will become an MP and change from inside.
Al

Then we do have something in common except I wouldn't dream of being an MP , a nightmare.

Ok but if you or others won't put up then you have to stay quiet. I really mean shut up. I have just fought and won a battle against a Local Authority, Telephonica and apathy. I learned that it is the unreasonable man who changes things not the go along moan and groan types. I also learned that the many stupid things done by the twisted logic of Government can be prevented if you try hard enough.

But if you won't take part then you can't shout the odds.

Alan

 

[RogerS]

It actually pre-dates that. Many of us objected violently to the Thatcher wholesale destruction of not only sections of industry but the sense of community. It was so obvious it was impossible to miss.

As ever the tories were so devoid of ideas of their own that they slavishly followed the Keith Joseph/Thatcher ravings.

Not much has changed. Prior to the last election I was invited to a meeting with Hague when they were seeking ideas for the future, no doubt sold as vox pop, but they were clearly without any underlying philosophy of their own hence the current ineffective easy target cutting.

Surely even they must see the irony of heralding a return to manufacturing, no doubt with full employment and riches for all. NOT

Oh please give me a break. I wondered just how long it would be before someone trumped out 'It's all Thatcher's fault' yet again.

 

[Allylearm]

It actually pre-dates that. Many of us objected violently to the Thatcher wholesale destruction of not only sections of industry but the sense of community. It was so obvious it was impossible to miss.

As ever the tories were so devoid of ideas of their own that they slavishly followed the Keith Joseph/Thatcher ravings.

Not much has changed. Prior to the last election I was invited to a meeting with Hague when they were seeking ideas for the future, no doubt sold as vox pop, but they were clearly without any underlying philosophy of their own hence the current ineffective easy target cutting.

Surely even they must see the irony of heralding a return to manufacturing, no doubt with full employment and riches for all. NOT

Oh please give me a break. I wondered just how long it would be before someone trumped out 'It's all Thatcher's fault' yet again.

Well the Tory and lib pact seem to say it was all labour and Mr Brown bad management. But for the period they have been in power Tory/Lib pact they have blamed natural disaster, the royal wedding and of course the Ole Euro issue. They did not allow labour or Brown to hide behind the Banks being the problem and we certainly should not allow DC and Clegg hide behind theirs. They chose a path of economic change and look where it has landed, recession and a defunct logic stating that the bank/stock exchange can solve it or sell an asset for less than we purchase it, shrewed George. Well Brown can tell you it did not and I do not see any political willpower to end that theory not from DC or George, they have no plan B. Well maybe the Unions/Pension funds can change that or China. Is that all they got, Danny Alexander should have stayed in the Muppets for all the good he is, he makes me ashamed he is a scot.

 

[RogerS]

It actually pre-dates that. Many of us objected violently to the Thatcher wholesale destruction of not only sections of industry but the sense of community. It was so obvious it was impossible to miss.

As ever the tories were so devoid of ideas of their own that they slavishly followed the Keith Joseph/Thatcher ravings.

Not much has changed. Prior to the last election I was invited to a meeting with Hague when they were seeking ideas for the future, no doubt sold as vox pop, but they were clearly without any underlying philosophy of their own hence the current ineffective easy target cutting.

Surely even they must see the irony of heralding a return to manufacturing, no doubt with full employment and riches for all. NOT

Oh please give me a break. I wondered just how long it would be before someone trumped out 'It's all Thatcher's fault' yet again.

Well the Tory and lib pact seem to say it was all labour and Mr Brown bad management. But for the period they have been in power Tory/Lib pact they have blamed natural disaster, the royal wedding and of course the Ole Euro issue. They did not allow labour or Brown to hide behind the Banks being the problem and we certainly should not allow DC and Clegg hide behind theirs. They chose a path of economic change and look where it has landed, recession and a defunct logic stating that the bank/stock exchange can solve it or sell an asset for less than we purchase it, shrewed George. Well Brown can tell you it did not and I do not see any political willpower to end that theory not from DC or George, they have no plan B. Well maybe the Unions/Pension funds can change that or China. Is that all they got, Danny Alexander should have stayed in the Muppets for all the good he is, he makes me ashamed he is a scot.

Ummm..we were already in a recession when they took over. I think you'll find that if you dig deep enough and do the math that the differenc between Labour's plan and that of the Coalition in terms of numbers ends up broadly the same.

Anyway, I was talking about poor old Margaret getting dragged into things again. I'm with beech on this one. She did a lot of good.

 

[Allylearm]

Wrong the govt are spending more than labour plan, I have done the arithmetic. Maggie good for South England and bad for everyone else.

 

[flying haggis]

Could anybody who has been forced to take a day off work to look after the children because the teachers are on strike, send in a bill for lost earnings to the appropriate union? I would love to see a test case!

 

[studders]

Blah!

 

[Modernist]

Anyway, I was talking about poor old Margaret getting dragged into things again. I'm with beech on this one. She did a lot of good.

You can rely on me Roger. :wink:

Re not getting involved in politics - not standing as a prospective MP does not disqualify you from comment. This and other forums are an equally valid form of democracy and, I think, a good thing. Far better to have discussion than not.

Returning the the subject of Mrs T you will have missed the recent article (Graun IIRC) which said her detractors and supporters both overstated their case, she was neither as bad or as good as either stated. Speaking for myself this is absolutely not the case. The damned woman was an archetypal aspirant vis the wealthy husband, artificial, unnatural accent and royal we when the despicable Mark was cruelly almost taken from us. (Chance missed). Such people drag along the similarly inclined in a mass self delusion event as we saw and see.

As for getting rid of lame industry they would dearly like it back now. Strange how the Japanese can make cars successfully using the same population who apparently could not do so for UK companies. Logically that points the finger not at the workers but the management/government.

I note none of my detractors have attempted to explain the volt face on manufacturing. Can no-one yet dream up a coherent excuse?

 

[LuptonM]

Why should we support our workers on November 30th?
Remember when teachers, policemen, police staff, ambulance staff, nurses, midwives, doctors and firefighters crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax?
No, me neither.

That is rather flawed. I work in banking and along with all my colleagues pay 40% tax. In fact the city contributes 30% of gdp to the treasury. The newspapers make out that everyone working in banking was paid millions.

As to people complaining about pensions changes are not what they signed up for. I think you will find that a great many private sector workers have had their pension terms changed since they joined their company, but they don't have the luxury of striking.

In my eyes, the public and private sector should be the same. If you don't like the changes being implemented, tough, go get another job

What kind of banking job do you have??????????

 

[wyldpuss]

:shock:

 

[MickCheese]

I am a public sector worker. I was not on strike today I was working from 6am to 8:30pm.

I pay, and have done for the past 35years, 11% of my salary in pension contributions.

11% is quite a high sum in contributions wouldn't you agree? But we should not be pitting one set of workers against another we should be seeking a solution.

Mick

 

[Dibs-h]

Dont they realise the gravy train has come off the rails :roll: the money has run out , welcome to the real world

+1.

Dibs

 

[RogerS]

....

As for getting rid of lame industry they would dearly like it back now. Strange how the Japanese can make cars successfully using the same population who apparently could not do so for UK companies. Logically that points the finger not at the workers but the management/government.
....

Lame industries like the heavily subsidised coal industry?

Re the car industry...you left out the unions.

I can do no better than quote this comment taken at random from a Google search..

The transformation was brutal, but it was worth it. Instead of a knackered shipbuilding industry, and politicised mining and car industries we now have industries that actually make money - IT, pharmacueticals, oil exploration and still (though foreign-owned) a car industry.

The transformation of BT, BP, British Gas and the removal of the burdens of Coal and Steel convinced me that the Tories were right.