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Sandyn

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brilliant!! thank you! This is where it all gets very confusing. When you look at the act it received Royal Assent, which makes it active, but it seems the part about recovery of parking charges from the keeper is not in force yet :) :) :) So they can't proceed with anything. I still can fall back on the misleading signage, which is easy to show with three pictures. Two parking signs and one permit. Ask the court which is the valid area for the permit...There is no way of telling.
 

Blackswanwood

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What you have said is very similar to what I have heard in the past from a variety of sources.

When my Speedo reads 70 (it's a dial type so hard to be exact) my Sat Nav is usually saying 63-64, to get the Sat Nav to read 70 the speedo has to be close to touching 80. Considering I normally drive on the motorway at around 65 (speedo) my "real" speed is probably only just 60.

I am pretty sure it’s based on ACPO guidelines that the 10% + 2mph is adopted but London and (I think) Lancashire use + 3 mph. One of the motoring magazines did a FOI and collated what all the different police forces use.

Edit - found it

 

bansobaby

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The actual facts on speedometer accuracy and the law seem to be shrouded in mystery. The change in accuracy of a speedo is dependent on tyre wear. Some tyres have as much as 25 or 30 mm of usable tread so the percentage of the diameter is significant. Indeed some vehicles allow you to recalibrate the satnav when you have new tyres fitted. And before you ask, it is not to over ride the satellite bit, but the bit where the satnav calculates position based on the distance travelled and steering inputs when the satellites are not available. But it doesn’t recalibrate the speedo itself....
Getting back to the speeding law, I was always under the impression that there was a 10% allowance. I have had this refuted by ex traffic officers who ran the only speed awareness course that I have attended, they said it wasn’t true. (I was attending due to receiving a ticket for 34 mph in a 30 limit, no complaints, I was speeding.)
I have also read somewhere that under a freedom of information request it appeared that there have not been any successful speeding prosecutions for speeds of less than 10% over the prevailing limit.
I freely admit that I cannot reproduce that information, so would be interested to know if anyone has better knowledge/ experience.
With regards to parking fines, I have no problem with paying for it, but I think some of the companies involved really take the proverbial.
There is only one pay and display car park that I use in any regular way, and I always offer my ticket to anyone entering the car park as I leave. Apparently this is illegal. Why? A parking space for a given period has been paid for......
 

Rorschach

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There is only one pay and display car park that I use in any regular way, and I always offer my ticket to anyone entering the car park as I leave. Apparently this is illegal. Why? A parking space for a given period has been paid for......

It's unlikely to be illegal, but contravenes the terms and conditions of parking instead. I also used to do this but most of our car parks require a number plate to be entered when buying the ticket now so you can't do it.
 

paulrbarnard

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The actual facts on speedometer accuracy and the law seem to be shrouded in mystery. The change in accuracy of a speedo is dependent on tyre wear. Some tyres have as much as 25 or 30 mm of usable tread so the percentage of the diameter is significant. Indeed some vehicles allow you to recalibrate the satnav when you have new tyres fitted. And before you ask, it is not to over ride the satellite bit, but the bit where the satnav calculates position based on the distance travelled and steering inputs when the satellites are not available. But it doesn’t recalibrate the speedo itself....
Getting back to the speeding law, I was always under the impression that there was a 10% allowance. I have had this refuted by ex traffic officers who ran the only speed awareness course that I have attended, they said it wasn’t true. (I was attending due to receiving a ticket for 34 mph in a 30 limit, no complaints, I was speeding.)
I have also read somewhere that under a freedom of information request it appeared that there have not been any successful speeding prosecutions for speeds of less than 10% over the prevailing limit.
I freely admit that I cannot reproduce that information, so would be interested to know if anyone has better knowledge/ experience.
With regards to parking fines, I have no problem with paying for it, but I think some of the companies involved really take the proverbial.
There is only one pay and display car park that I use in any regular way, and I always offer my ticket to anyone entering the car park as I leave. Apparently this is illegal. Why? A parking space for a given period has been paid for......
Slightly inaccurate. GNSS units are not recalibrated for tire wear. GNSS does not do dead reckoning. In a complex ASAS system GNSS is used as one input to a dead reckoning system that uses additional inputs like wheel ticks, steering actuators and inertial sensors. These inputs can be fused to calculate a more accurate relative trajectory of the vehicle. Of all these inputs the wheel ticks are the only ones impacted by tire wear, or indeed temperature.
 

bansobaby

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Slightly inaccurate. GNSS units are not recalibrated for tire wear. GNSS does not do dead reckoning. In a complex ASAS system GNSS is used as one input to a dead reckoning system that uses additional inputs like wheel ticks, steering actuators and inertial sensors. These inputs can be fused to calculate a more accurate relative trajectory of the vehicle. Of all these inputs the wheel ticks are the only ones impacted by tire wear, or indeed temperature.
I’m pretty sure that’s what I said.......I specifically pointed out that it did not recalibrate the satellitey thingy bit😬
 

bansobaby

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It's unlikely to be illegal, but contravenes the terms and conditions of parking instead. I also used to do this but most of our car parks require a number plate to be entered when buying the ticket now so you can't do it.
My mistake, I should not have used the word ‘illegal’ but perhaps the phrase ‘against their rules’.......
 

bansobaby

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It's unlikely to be illegal, but contravenes the terms and conditions of parking instead. I also used to do this but most of our car parks require a number plate to be entered when buying the ticket now so you can't do it.

And further, what is the justification for being required to enter your registration, other than the desire to be paid more than once for the same entity.
That to me is further cause to use the justifiable recompense argument when it comes to ridiculous fines, sorry, charges.....
 

Rorschach

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And further, what is the justification for being required to enter your registration, other than the desire to be paid more than once for the same entity.
That to me is further cause to use the justifiable recompense argument when it comes to ridiculous fines, sorry, charges.....

Yep, just money grabbing really.
 

Glitch

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The actual facts on speedometer accuracy and the law seem to be shrouded in mystery. The change in accuracy of a speedo is dependent on tyre wear. Some tyres have as much as 25 or 30 mm of usable tread so the percentage of the diameter is significant. Indeed some vehicles allow you to recalibrate the satnav when you have new tyres fitted. And before you ask, it is not to over ride the satellite bit, but the bit where the satnav calculates position based on the distance travelled and steering inputs when the satellites are not available. But it doesn’t recalibrate the speedo itself....
Getting back to the speeding law, I was always under the impression that there was a 10% allowance. I have had this refuted by ex traffic officers who ran the only speed awareness course that I have attended, they said it wasn’t true. (I was attending due to receiving a ticket for 34 mph in a 30 limit, no complaints, I was speeding.)
I have also read somewhere that under a freedom of information request it appeared that there have not been any successful speeding prosecutions for speeds of less than 10% over the prevailing limit.
I freely admit that I cannot reproduce that information, so would be interested to know if anyone has better knowledge/ experience.
With regards to parking fines, I have no problem with paying for it, but I think some of the companies involved really take the proverbial.
There is only one pay and display car park that I use in any regular way, and I always offer my ticket to anyone entering the car park as I leave. Apparently this is illegal. Why? A parking space for a given period has been paid for......

Surely tyre circumference has no bearing on a satnav working out your speed and distance?
Google Maps certainly doesn’t use any inputs from the vehicle.

It will affect your speedometer slightly but not as much as putting different size wheels or tyres on.

Transferring your parking ticket is against the terms and conditions of the contract you enter when you purchase the ticket. But few people read them.
Most car parks have resorted to Ringo or PayByPhone or having to punch your VRM into the ticket machine to stop ticket transfers. I always used to give mine away too.
 

bansobaby

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Surely tyre circumference has no bearing on a satnav working out your speed and distance?
Google Maps certainly doesn’t use any inputs from the vehicle.

It will affect your speedometer slightly but not as much as putting different size wheels or tyres on.

Transferring your parking ticket is against the terms and conditions of the contract you enter when you purchase the ticket. But few people read them.
Most car parks have resorted to Ringo or PayByPhone or having to punch your VRM into the ticket machine to stop ticket transfers. I always used to give mine away too.

I did go to the trouble in the original post of pointing out the reason for the tyre recalibration, specifically that it is not related to the ‘satellite’ part of the navigation system, but rather the information that is available to it when satellite info is not, namely direction through steering input and distance travelled based on wheel rotation count. This last point being dependent on tyre wear.
 

artie

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In a previous live I ran a taxi company in a small town.

We rarely drove within the speed limit but the local cops were ok.

Traffic branch however were not. I remember one telling me how far we could push it.

He said since car speedometers by law can have a 10% deviation then you will never find yourself in court unless you exceed the limit by more than 10%.

He said on top of that we usually allow another 2 mph grace so you will not get booked unless you do 69 in a 60 etc.

This was back before fixed penalties
 

Sandyn

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He said since car speedometers by law can have a 10% deviation then you will never find yourself in court unless you exceed the limit by more than 10%.

He said on top of that we usually allow another 2 mph grace so you will not get booked unless you do 69 in a 60 etc.


not sure if this is accurate, but my understanding is 10%+2mph
 

marcros

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speeding is speeding. 1mph over is speeding and is against the law.

the charging guidelines do allow some discretion, and these vary by area. my local ones are here Questions | West Yorkshire Police . this seems to be 10% + 2mph in West Yorkshire.

whatever the speedo says is largely irrelevant but the manufacturers need a standard to work to. I am certain that if they just had a guess at it there would be endless complaints from users receiving speeding tickets.

I dont know, but I would expect that on the motorway in dry conditions, the police are not that interested in the traffic at 80mph, they will look for the car that is travelling significantly faster than the rest, or weaving between lanes.
 

MikeJhn

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My sat nav, which , by the way is years old, tells me when I exceed the speed limit by turning my speed indicator red
My car has a limit button, when the speed you wish to maintain is reached that speed is a maximum just gently pushing the accelerator has no effect, flooring the throttle lets you accelerate and obviously if you back off the speed decays, more effective than flashing the speedo for an inattentive driver, in economy mode there is no engine braking as the transmission is disengaged from the engine to save fuel.
 

Doodahdebs

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I wish someone would invent a gadget that started to beep if you started to exceed the speed limit, perhaps sat nav technology controlled for changing limits, that way you could concentrate on your driving. Although Ive not been on one, people I know who have gone on the police speed awareness course as an alternative to a fine have all said that the people attending were older seemingly sensible drivers who were speeding through inattention.
Steve.
I have a speedometer app on my phone that you can set to beep at you when you exceed the limit. something like that might be worth looking at.
 

Glitch

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speeding is speeding. 1mph over is speeding and is against the law.

the charging guidelines do allow some discretion, and these vary by area. my local ones are here Questions | West Yorkshire Police . this seems to be 10% + 2mph in West Yorkshire.

whatever the speedo says is largely irrelevant but the manufacturers need a standard to work to. I am certain that if they just had a guess at it there would be endless complaints from users receiving speeding tickets.

I dont know, but I would expect that on the motorway in dry conditions, the police are not that interested in the traffic at 80mph, they will look for the car that is travelling significantly faster than the rest, or weaving between lanes.

Similarly, the legal limit for drink driving is 35mg per 100ml of breath but they only charge you if it's 40mg or above.
 

Robbo60

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I wish someone would invent a gadget that started to beep if you started to exceed the speed limit, perhaps sat nav technology controlled for changing limits, that way you could concentrate on your driving. Although Ive not been on one, people I know who have gone on the police speed awareness course as an alternative to a fine have all said that the people attending were older seemingly sensible drivers who were speeding through inattention.
Steve.
I've been on a few speed awareness courses over the years and always 90% of attendees were 40yrs+, mostly being done in 30 and 40MPH areas
 
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