Principles

[Archimedes]

Gents

I have joined UKW very recently and would first like to thank everyone for the warm welcome! One of the members who replied jokingly said ‘It’s nice to have a man of principles around here’ and, while I wouldn’t like to start making any claim to that , it did start me thinking about how I operate my little ‘workshop’ (aka alarmingly spacious toolbox and workmate with a wood vice attached).

So, here are my three rules:

Workshop and projects

1. Finished pieces are the measure of success at all times.
2. The workshop should use the minimum amount of tools, energy, space and materials necessary to complete any finished piece.
3. All tools should be the best quality affordable at the time of purchase and should only be purchased for a specific operation that is required and justifies the cost.

So far I have made a shaker ladder-back chair on a woodworking course late last year and now want to focus my output on developing jointing skill for box and cabinet work. Right now I am focusing on honing my skills on small box projects (current project a 8” x 6” x 4” box in walnut with arched top, comb jointed corner and birch mitred inserts). My complete tool list looks like this:

1. Lie Nielsen No4 Smoothing plan
2. Lie Nielsen No73 shoulder plane
3. Lie Nielsen No103 low angle block plane
4. Set of six Narex bevel edged chisels in 6 mm – 20 mm
5. Card scraper
6. Veritas wheel marking gauge
7. Lie Nielsen Dovetail marker
8. Mitutoyo combination square and solid 6” engineer’s square
9. Lie Nielsen straight handled dovetail saw
10. Marking knife
11. Bahco coping saw
12. Quangsheng spokeshave

I have just two power tools: a little Power devil band saw and a dremel with router attachment. On the Power Devil I have replaced the flimsy aluminium fence on it with a solid piece of steel plate (ground on the guide side) which has much more positive fixation to the table now.

For small box projects I think this set up will do nicely for now. However I am acutely aware of the need for some decent sharpening equipment. I have rejected the ‘scary sharpening’ method as I managed to ruin an old chisel by bevelling off the sides and, having read David Charlesworth’s comments on this method, it appears I am not the only one. I am open to oil or water stones as a sharpening medium.

I am sticking to my rule that the finished piece is the measure of success as I don’t want to measure success by how many planes I have got... We all know someone with a fantastically equipped workshop that never seem to finish anything and, to be honest, their hobby is usually less woodworking and more collecting pretty tools.

What are your thoughts on both my tool selection and on potential sharpening media?

Thanks for your input!

Kind regards to all,

A

 

[woodbloke]

So, here are my three rules:

Workshop and projects

1. Finished pieces are the measure of success at all times.
2. The workshop should use the minimum amount of tools, energy, space and materials necessary to complete any finished piece.
3. All tools should be the best quality affordable at the time of purchase and should only be purchased for a specific operation that is required and justifies the cost.

So far I have made a shaker ladder-back chair on a woodworking course late last year and now want to focus my output on developing jointing skill for box and cabinet work. Right now I am focusing on honing my skills on small box projects (current project a 8” x 6” x 4” box in walnut with arched top, comb jointed corner and birch mitred inserts). My complete tool list looks like this:

1. Lie Nielsen No4 Smoothing plan
2. Lie Nielsen No73 shoulder plane
3. Lie Nielsen No103 low angle block plane
4. Set of six Narex bevel edged chisels in 6 mm – 20 mm
5. Card scraper
6. Veritas wheel marking gauge
7. Lie Nielsen Dovetail marker
8. Mitutoyo combination square and solid 6” engineer’s square
9. Lie Nielsen straight handled dovetail saw
10. Marking knife
11. Bahco coping saw
12. Quangsheng spokeshave.

For small box projects I think this set up will do nicely for now. However I am acutely aware of the need for some decent sharpening equipment. I have rejected the ‘scary sharpening’ method as I managed to ruin an old chisel by bevelling off the sides and, having read David Charlesworth’s comments on this method, it appears I am not the only one. I am open to oil or water stones as a sharpening medium.

I am sticking to my rule that the finished piece is the measure of success as I don’t want to measure success by how many planes I have got... We all know someone with a fantastically equipped workshop that never seem to finish anything and, to be honest, their hobby is usually less woodworking and more collecting pretty tools.

What are your thoughts on both my tool selection and on potential sharpening media?

Thanks for your input!

Kind regards to all,

A

I agree with a lot of your principles in priciple :lol: but you'll find that a lot of UKW members actually like workshops full of tools, which don't seem to get used and it's the tool collecting thingie, more than the application of said tools, that interests them. For me, I've got a foot in both camps...I like acquiring tools but the proviso is that they're used to make stuff and more importanltly, finish stuff.

The 'minimum amount of tools' is also an interesting one. A search for the 'Slope' will reveal that if you stick around UKW, 'minimum' may well get changed quite rapidly into 'maximum' :lol:

Tool selection...a good basic kit, but many hereabouts find the LN No73 too big, myself included (I had one a couple of years ago) and many prefer the Veritas versions, especialy the medium shoulder plane.

I've tried all the systems currently available, and now find that the so called 'scary sharp' system for me, is best. I use the 3M films, float glass block and Kell III (available from Workshop Heaven) but if you're new to honing, I wouldn't recommend the Kell at the moment...try something a little more intuitive like an Eclipse (or clone thereof) - Rob

 

[bugbear]

... their hobby is usually less woodworking and more collecting pretty tools.

How very dare you!?

My hobby also includes restoring pretty(and/or unusual) tools, and researching the trades they were involved in.

At least it keeps me off the streets.

BugBear

 

[marcus]

I'm very much in agreement with your general approach - spot on!

Re your question on sharpening, is there a reason you don't have diamond stones in your list of choices? Much less hassle than water stones, and faster than oil stones. My sharpening set-up is a DMT Duo sharp fine/medium and a DMT ultra-fine stone, and a can of WD 40. This is a very convenient and simple solution. The blades end up sharp enough to shave with and I don't see any reason to go sharper unless you are doing really extraordinarily precise and delicate work with highly figured timber. You could save a bit of money by getting a course/fine india stone instead of the duo sharp.

 

[myturn]

Totally disgree with you with regard to tools. :mrgreen:

Tools should be bought because:

• they look nice
• you don't have at least one already
• they might come in handy one day
• if it's bulky you WILL find somewhere to put it (spare bedroom?)
• you have one already but want a better (=more expensive or shinier) one

If they don't meet the above criteria you may still buy it because you haven't bought a tool for a week or so.

:tool: :tool: :tool: :tool: :tool:

 

[bugbear]

Totally disgree with you with regard to tools. :mrgreen:

Tools should be bought because:

• they look nice
• you don't have at least one already
• they might come in handy one day
• if it's bulky you WILL find somewhere to put it (spare bedroom?)
• you have one already but want a better (=more expensive or shinier) one

If they don't meet the above criteria you may still buy it because you haven't bought a tool for a week or so.

:tool: :tool: :tool: :tool: :tool:

How about buying a tool precisely because you DON'T know what it's for? I've done that.

BugBear

 

[Archimedes]

Gents

Where did I say there was anything wrong in collecting pretty tools? And may I add...ALL tools should be pretty spanky looking. If they are not, they are not being looked after! :mrgreen:

If collecting tools is your thing, please fill your boots!

Thanks for the advice on sharpening systems. Scary sharpening represents the 'diferent strokes for different folks'. If it works for you then great. I am terrified of ruining very expensive plane blades with my bumbling ineptitude (so I try out any system on a horrible old Stanley blade and an 'almost dead' chisel). It just didn't work for me.

Diamond stones? Hmmm not sure. I will have to look into that.

Thanks All!!

A

 

[myturn]

How about buying a tool precisely because you DON'T know what it's for? I've done that.

BugBear

Cheers, I'll add that to my criteria!

Justification: Educational purposes

 

[Alf]

More of my tool purchases were/are for educational purposes than can possibly be healthy - someone has to be the person who, when asked, can tell you the differences between three different designs of side rebate plane, right? Although that raises an important point; really I should get the other two sorts to be able to do the job properly...

Welcome to the forum, Archimedes. You lost me at #1, but never mind. Regarding diamond stones, I differ from Marcus in that I would regard them as a better choice for the medium range and opt for oilstones for the finer stuff, but when it comes down to it, it's all just a case of coarse through to fine and everything else is all about preferences for speed/need for flattening/costs/etc.

But more to the point, have you got a pic of your chair?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

..someone has to be the person who, when asked, can tell you the differences between three different designs of side rebate plane, right?

Absolutely right, Alf. But better its you ... I wouldn't do something like that :lol:

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

But of course the more people who can do this, the better...

 

[Richard T]

The checklist I go through before buying a tool.

1. Was it made before 1943? yes
2. Is it straight where it should be? yes
3. Is it otherwise repairable? yes
4. Do I know what it is/ is for? N/A
5. Can you "never have enough of those though, can yer"? No
6. Have I already got one? Maybe, not telling.
7. Could I use it or some of it to repair some thing else or make part of something else all together? Presumably; at the moment I'm confident.
8. If at a later date I regret buying it, could I get more for it on ebay than this ejit is asking? yes


In a whole other world, there is another question that has its own family of sub questions.
That is - Do I need it?
This is a "serious question" and nothing like as much fun as the eight above. Conjoined are things like - Have we got room for it? - What will the neighbours say? - What will we feed it on? - and Is it legal? ... No fun at all, but unfortunately sometimes nessascserry .

Welcome aboard btw

 

[Scouse]

My checklist is considerably shorter than those above.

1. Is the wife looking?

2. Will she notice?

If the answer is no to these two questions, happy days! :mrgreen:

 

[jimi43]

I think when you have enough tools to fill your workshop...you need a new workshop!! :mrgreen:

Does getting a tool because you don't know what it does and still don't count as lunacy? 8)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[jorgoz]

Principles are one thing, sticking to them another :wink:

Sharpening is a highly personal thing, so here's my 2 cents worth.

About waterstones being more of a hassle. Depends on which generation waterstones your talking about. The newer generation stones, ie. shapton, sigma, naniwa chosera to name but a few, are a completely different story compared to for example the old king stones. No pre-soaking involved, or minimal in some cases, a lot more dish resistant and a lot faster. Make a tray to hold the stones, a plant sprayer to wet the stones and you can happily sharpen on you bench without messing up you bench. Also waterstones are the most cost-effective in the long run, and a lot more choice when it comes to grit sizes.

And as for diamond stone, there again is a broader choice than just DMT's. I've had a couple of DMT's in the past. One was very concave, a diasharp and a duosharp, which lost's it's grit quite quickly. No more, i now use an atoma, although only for flattening my waterstones and the occasional nick i have to grind out.

If you haven't read these about waterstones, check these pages,
Part 1, http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=672
Part 2, http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=678
Intermission, http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=713
Part 3, http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=726
Part 4, http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=756

 

[dickm]

One advantage of being old is you can always justify that additional tool purchase with "oh what the h***, the taxman will only get the money when I die, so buy it"

 

[myturn]

One advantage of being old is you can always justify that additional tool purchase with "oh what the h***, the taxman will only get the money when I die, so buy it"

One disadvantage of being old is you can't say "It will last me a lifetime" 8)

 

[jimi43]

One advantage of being old is you can always justify that additional tool purchase with "oh what the h***, the taxman will only get the money when I die, so buy it"

One disadvantage of being old is you can't say "It will last me a lifetime" 8)

Not true at all! :mrgreen:

On the contrary...it will have a greater resale value as it will be newer! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[myturn]

One advantage of being old is you can always justify that additional tool purchase with "oh what the h***, the taxman will only get the money when I die, so buy it"

One disadvantage of being old is you can't say "It will last me a lifetime" 8)

Not true at all! :mrgreen:

On the contrary...it will have a greater resale value as it will be newer! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

Always look on the bright side ...... :-D

 

[Schtoo]

The checklist I go through before buying a tool.

1. Was it made before 1943? yes
2. Is it straight where it should be? yes
3. Is it otherwise repairable? yes
4. Do I know what it is/ is for? N/A
5. Can you "never have enough of those though, can yer"? No
6. Have I already got one? Maybe, not telling.
7. Could I use it or some of it to repair some thing else or make part of something else all together? Presumably; at the moment I'm confident.
8. If at a later date I regret buying it, could I get more for it on ebay than this ejit is asking? yes

For me...

#1. No. Was it made last week? Probably. Do I know who made it? Yes. Have I 'broken bread' with that person? Yes! Then it's ok.
#2. See #1.
#3. See #1.
#4. Is it shiny? Yes? Who cares what it's for!
#5. I'd never do that. Ever. (Puts a mountain of shiny plane blades out of sight, half of which I don't own planes they'll fit into...) Never I tell ya!
#6. Pfft. Who cares, it's SHINY!
#7. See #6!
#8. See #1. Knowing who made the thing makes them decidededly economical. Yes it does.

Now, what the heck am I going to do with all them shiny plane blades?

I just noticed. My #4 ate one...

I know, get more planes! Problem solved. Thanks for the help.