Post-Brexit international tool shopping.

[AES]

Gents, PLEEZ!

I'm as guilty as anyone (OK, more than most perhaps!) of generating thread drift/s.

BUT the OP of this thread is titled "Post-brexit international tool shopping".

In drawing attention to some of the (to me anyway) strange anomalies that I've already experienced when importing/exporting to/from EU and non-EU countries, I was simply trying to point out that there are already some weird and apparently inexplicable goings-on, and that it is therefore PROBABLE that when all the negs between UK, EU and non-EU countries are all finally settled, today's status quo will change in at least some ways, and with LIKELY/POSSIBLE (?) concomitant price increases to boot.

I also made it clear that just like everyone else today, I've absolutely no idea of the size, number nor type of those changes.

But what I was definitely NOT trying do is to start or steer this thread into a "political direction" - which as we all know, is anyway against the rules of UKW membership.

So with the greatest respect to Trainee neophyte and to lurker, whether or not the EU will last for a thousand years or die next week, and/or whether or not the Germans will anyway end up paying for it all is, IMHO, just not at all relevant to the Q asked by the OP.

So can we please leave the "political comments" there and just, again with respect, leave the thread to be contributed to only by anyone who has something directly relevant to the OP's Q to add?

"Pretty please?" I for one do not wish to see this thread - or any other - turned into another one of "those nasty threads".

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Gents, PLEEZ!

I'm as guilty as anyone (OK, more than most perhaps!) of generating thread drift/s.

BUT the OP of this thread is titled "Post-brexit international tool shopping".

In drawing attention to some of the (to me anyway) strange anomalies that I've already experienced when importing/exporting to/from EU and non-EU countries, I was simply trying to point out that there are already some weird and apparently inexplicable goings-on, and that it is therefore PROBABLE that when all the negs between UK, EU and non-EU countries are all finally settled, today's status quo will change in at least some ways, and with LIKELY/POSSIBLE (?) concomitant price increases to boot.

I also made it clear that just like everyone else today, I've absolutely no idea of the size, number nor type of those changes.

But what I was definitely NOT trying do is to start or steer this thread into a "political direction" - which as we all know, is anyway against the rules of UKW membership.

So with the greatest respect to Trainee neophyte and to lurker, whether or not the EU will last for a thousand years or die next week, and/or whether or not the Germans will anyway end up paying for it all is, IMHO, just not at all relevant to the Q asked by the OP.

So can we please leave the "political comments" there and just, again with respect, leave the thread to be contributed to only by anyone who has something directly relevant to the OP's Q to add?

"Pretty please?" I for one do not wish to see this thread - or any other - turned into another one of "those nasty threads".

My bad! You're right.

I spent most of today trying to arrange paperwork for a young Englishman to allow him to have gainful employment in Greece this summer. Whilst we failed in the attempt (normal - it's only our second attempt), it looks as though it will actually be possible, provided his new employer doesn't get tired of waiting. So Brexit may not be a spanner in the works for the young lad. Next year, everything changes, but for now it looks possible, so a little ray of sunshine may peer through the gloom.

Edit: still off-topic, except the the lad is a volunteer, so definitely a tool of some description. Damn useful, in any event. He builds walls and everything!

 

[AES]

Thanks for the posted apology "Tn". Much appreciated. And BTW, good luck with your "tool" negotiations!

If he's that useful, when you've finished with him there send him to me - there's at least a couple of jobs I can find for him

 

[Trainee neophyte]

:| Y

Thanks for the posted apology "Tn". Much appreciated. And BTW, good luck with your "tool" negotiations!

If he's that useful, when you've finished with him there send him to me - there's at least a couple of jobs I can find for him

You can get your own - plenty available online.

Seriously.

https://www.helpx.net/
https://www.workaway.info/

You get help for a day, a week, a month - whatever works for you and or the volunteer. They get food and lodgings, and you get a pet slave, I mean helper. Because they are volunteering, you can't shout at them too much, and they get upset if you expect 14 hour days, but other than that, I highly recommend it. You also get an exchange of ideas, meet new people, and learn a great deal. Is this covered under the "on-line tool shopping" theme? I think so.

 

[AES]

Just my little "joke" Tn, but thanks anyway

 

[Droogs]

Workaway are brilliant. i did 6 months in a woodshop in the south of france and learned loads when it first started get a bed and fed and a holiday to boot. Well worth the 20 euro joining fee and the opportunities and experiences that are available now to those willing to "volunteer" and the number of locations are astounding. Fancy learning to dog sled in Finland or be a Fruit bat rescue rancher in Australia (my missus did this) or a cowboy in Bulgaria or the US. It really is a great thig and I tell all the young 'uns to give it a go.

 

[AndyT]

I'm pretty sure that at some time in the recent past, I looked at one or other of the two good German online tool stores often mentioned on here, thinking of buying something, and saw an announcement saying that because all the admin around exports to the UK had become so unclear, all sales our way were suspended. It was probably near to the first planned date for leaving, and the supplier in question would have been Dictum or Dieter Schmid.
As far as I can see from their sites just now, sales to us are open again. Whether that stays the same after the end of the year remains to be seen.

Of course, at the moment trade flows both ways - IIRC, when I went to the Axminster open day, we were told that they are the biggest supplier of woodworking tools in Scandinavia. I expect they would prefer certainty like so many of us, but it seems to be out of stock.

 

[Inspector]

The possibility exists that some companies might just open a branch company in the EU and have the Asian import part of their business sent there direct, bypassing the UK. They would have one side of the business serving home and the other side serving their EU customers. It would only be viable if a lot of their existing business goes across the Channel and the red tape and costs of doing business from England are too high.

Pete

 

[Trainee neophyte]

The possibility exists that some companies might just open a branch company in the EU and have the Asian import part of their business sent there direct, bypassing the UK. They would have one side of the business serving home and the other side serving their EU customers. It would only be viable if a lot of their existing business goes across the Channel and the red tape and costs of doing business from England are too high.

Pete

Axminster has a Bulgarian outlet: https://www.jettools.bg/

So that's me sorted, then. We are also already using amazon.de as an alternative, because sometimes the delivery is cheaper. This will increase if/when UK leaves without a deal, but most of the same stuff is available, from Germany, plus extra lederhosen .

Asian stuff will have the same import issues into either Europe or the UK, so it would make sense to send things direct from China to the customer, rather than in and out of Europe first. More fun will be things made in Germany, exported to UK. It may be an opportunity for UK engineering firms to make stuff instead? Don't all laugh at once...

 

[AES]

"Certainty is out of stock". Yup, I like that one Andy T! =D>

I think the likes of Axminster (just an example) and such other big/ger firms will pretty soon adapt their policies to whatever the final rules & regs turn out to be. What does concern me more is the example sunnybob already brought up - in his case it was Tuffsaws, but there are quite a few other small "one man band suppliers" who are good but who may well have/already have difficulties. That could end up to all our detriment.

But as Andy T has already (very well) pointed out, none of us knows anything for certain as yet, so I hope we "hobbyists" (AND the smaller professional shops often represented here) just don't suffer too much.

But just a further point to "ponder", adding to the 4 examples I gave on an earlier post in this thread - yes, it's Amazon Germany (again)!

I posted here a couple of weeks back about a special workshop stool my wife bought for me. Yup, you guessed it - Amazon.de sent it direct to our door here in Switzerland without a single murmur, first time she ordered! And they billed her credit card in Swiss Francs too!

Anyone understand that, especially when compared with the other 4 examples I gave above?

Nope, me neither!

 

[AES]

@Droogs: QUOTE: It really is a great thig and I tell all the young 'uns to give it a go. UNQUOTE:

I think that includes me out mate

 

[Trainee neophyte]

@Droogs: QUOTE: It really is a great thig and I tell all the young 'uns to give it a go. UNQUOTE:

I think that includes me out mate

Not at all - plenty of volunteers of all ages. Do you not have skills to teach, ideas to impart? Volunteering is a two way street - both sides get to learn.

 

[Trevanion]

The best solution is to stop stealin' our bleedin' tools and get yer own!

Importing bulk loads our tools and selling them on for ridiculous profit has become big business in America from what I gather. Just look at this honing guide, you'd pick these up for literal pennies here as no one wants the damn things and would be happy to give them away, but give it a bit of nonsense write up and charge an extortionate price in America and some silly person will buy it.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/very-rare-patented-stanley-plane-iron-honing-guide-70588

One of these sold, I kid you not.

 

[AES]

Blimey Trevanion! At the price you linked to, my "antique" Eclipse Honing Guide must be worth about USD 500! Heigh ho, I'm "rich"!

And for "Tn": About the only decent "skills" I've got to share are already posted here or are totally irrelevant to "normal people"!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Blimey Trevanion! At the price you linked to, my "antique" Eclipse Honing Guide must be worth about USD 500! Heigh ho, I'm "rich"!

And for "Tn": About the only decent "skills" I've got to share are already posted here or are totally irrelevant to "normal people"!

I think you will find everyone needs a sharper (insert tool here). They just may not know it yet.

 

[thetyreman]

there are UK 'dealers' as well, to be fair and some of the prices can be extortionate, now everybody knows the value of everything so they don't start off at low prices like they used to...anyone remember ebay in 2002? I do! bloody hell there were some bargains back then compared to now, it was amazing, I bought some amazing stuff that I still own, wish I'd have been into woodworking back then.

 

[heimlaga]

The best solution is to stop stealin' our bleedin' tools and get yer own!

Importing bulk loads our tools and selling them on for ridiculous profit has become big business in America from what I gather. Just look at this honing guide, you'd pick these up for literal pennies here as no one wants the damn things and would be happy to give them away, but give it a bit of nonsense write up and charge an extortionate price in America and some Silly person will buy it.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/very-rare-patented-stanley-plane-iron-honing-guide-70588

One of these sold, I kid you not.

To "get my own" usually means that I have to choose between either selling of everything else I own and going bankrupt to get tools or making them myself from scratch.
I could make my own sash cramps from scratch but I am too busy making lots and lots of other unobtainable tools and machines from scratch or rebuilding whatever worn out stuff I can get hold of.

You see...... In Finland there are a couple of tool importers who together control the market completely. They decide what they make the most profit from and then they import only that product and nothing else while proclaiming that everything else is "not manufactured anymore". They generally don't supply anything else than the cheapest most useless Chineese rubbish or the biggest industrial models.
So...... if you want a sash cramp of better quality than the cheapest model you could find at the cheapest discount warehouses in England...... and don't want to shell out for a fully automated computer controlled assembly line...... there is not much to choose from.
One importer who sells Bessey sash cramps for 100-170 euros apiece and that's it.

This in turn means that our secondhand market is very depleted and prices are high. I actually got hold of a bunch of secondhand Record and Woden sash cramps in decent condition for a decent price here in Finland but it took me 15 years of searching high and low in a very large district and many hundreds of kilometres of driving back and forth to look at cramps that turned out to be beyond repair and still expensive. Then in the end I found them in the next village. Though they were still too few and I could not wait another 15 years for more.

Living it the end of the pipeline means that you get a whole different attitude to distances and to making or importing stuff. Fetching a drill press from 700 kilometres away in another country across the sea is just normal. How common it it for an Englishman to go for instance from East Anglia to Cologne to get a drill press?....... or to fetch a new front axle for his tractor from a scrap yard near Barcelona? That is normal everyday life to us.
The alternative is to make from scratch using whatever materials one can find. Building a planer/thicknesser or a table saw or a spindle moulder from scrap yard materials is not unheard of.

 

[Selwyn]

Which begs the question what is the common market doing for Finns? Something is taking the money somewhere given that Dick tools in Germany have decent prices and could concievably courier to you

 

[heimlaga]

I have thought about that myself for many years and I think I have figured it out.

i belong to the Swedish minority in Finland. We are around 300000 Swedes living on the coast and have always had strong ties to Sweden and Denmark and Norway and beyond. When the border between Finland and Sweden was drawn up in 1809 nobody asked us for permission to make a border there so the border doesn't apply to us. Before the common market everybody at least had friends or family who smuggled if they weren't involved themselves. Pitchforks and shovels and water pumps and stainless sinks and all sorts of tools and eqipment were smuggled all the time before the common market.
We Swedes on the coast are doing what we can to use the common market and ordering tools and other stuff from Germany is commonplace. I have done it quite a few times.

The other 5 million people in this country are Finns. Of cause one should never generalize the behaviour of an ethnic group but a large percentage of the Finns are very insular in their thinking. Ordering something from a business utside Finland is totally out of question. All that is not written in Finnish does not concern them and therefore they have never bothered to learn any other language. If they need something that is not supplied by the import monopolies they make do without. In some cases even blaming themselves and feeling ashamed for having improper needs that don't befit a Finn.
Of cause far from all Finns are like that but many enough are like that to uphold the monopolies and the shortages.
The high profit marigins that the importers and distributors always add on absolutely everything means that though the wage level is decent the high living costs mean that each person has to choose between a "make do and mend" lifestyle or a consumerist lifestyle leading to lifelong debth and often ultimate bankrupcy. Those trendy people who follow the indebted consumerist route don't usually buy tools and the rest of us are short of loose money.

In this very case Dieter Schmid offered only pipe cramp heads that don't fit my needs and some very suspect Chineese made cramp heads that were in fact more expensive than secondhand properly made English ones. The shipping of a bunch of Bessey sash cramps with factory made rail and all from Germany turned out to be a bit to costly though the cramps themselves were significantly cheaper in Germany than here. Having stuff shipped to Finland isn't always cheap.

Therefore I decided to buy secondhand cramp heads from England and fit them onto locally bought 25x50x3mm rectangular tubing.

 

[Nelsun]

I've bought a few Makita LXT tools from German based sites like conrad.com and passiontec.co.uk which had the lowest prices I could find online for the particular items. Delivery to a remote Scottish island typically was 7 days and, go figure, cheaper than UK based companies charge. I suspect this may change for us here once Br*xit fully kicks in but may be of use to you in Finland?