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Pocket table leg joints?

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Red

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I've made a few tables in my time, but only one dining table, and the legs are definitely the weak point on that project. It was a dining/gaming table with an inset playing surface and I'm looking to replace it with something better, so I definitely want to make sure I fix that fault, while keeping the legs removable.

I know you would normally use a corner brace here, but attaching it would leave the head visible in the playing area. Do you think my joint here will lead to wobbly legs if my cuts are exact and perfect?

Thanks

Joint 1.PNG
Joint 2.PNG
 
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MikeG.

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Do you think my joint here will lead to wobbly legs if my cuts are exact and perfect?
Potentially yes, because the legs will tend to shrink but the longitudinal timbers won't, meaning the legs will be in a hole which is slightly too big for them.
 

Red

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I've not worked that much with solid timber, which is another concern for this project.

Could you explain why corner braces don't have the same issue with shrinkage?
 

MikeG.

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I'm not sure what you mean by corner braces. My tables all have mortise and tenon joints. I have seen tables with a diagonal bracket (steel) in the corners, with a bolt sticking out of the legs and a giant wing-nut fixing to the diagonal. Is that what you mean?
 

Red

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Yeah that's exactly the sort I was thinking of. Do you have a suggestion for my project?
 

Red

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I've changed the design to something Matthias Wendal inspired. The legs will be permanently attached to each other on the short aprons (shown in cherry) and the main table top (in oak) will drop onto, and slide into the legs, and held in place with screws. I think this will work, but adding it here because it's nice to see progress and in case anyone wants to yell "STOP!"
Joint 2a.PNG
Joint 2b.PNG
 

Cabinetman

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You would need to drill some holes through the inner frame to be able to screw through those short tenons.
Short tenons do work, it’s how I make my beds. Ian
But I’m afraid you’ve lost me with regard to the top. And why doesn’t the inner frame lineup with that housing?
 

Red

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Thanks Ian. Yep, I definitely need some access holes for the screws near the leg. I think I can do the others with a ratchet though, as that will be visible. The table is a dining/gaming table, which is why there's an inner frame and holes in it would be visible.

The inner frame would drop into that recess, then slide forwards to its shown position. This is to allow it to line up with the dowels you can see, and the ones that would be on the parallel piece.
 

MusicMan

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I've not worked that much with solid timber, which is another concern for this project.

Could you explain why corner braces don't have the same issue with shrinkage?
Basically, the leg is going to shrink across both its widths. With a diagonal brace this doesn't matter; it it wobbles just tighten up the one nut. With yours, if you tighten up one coach screw the other one becomes misaligned with its thread, leading to wobble. But your original design would work if you replaced the coach screws with bolts going into a threaded insert, and made the through hole for the bolts oversize to allow for the movement.

Your second design looks a bit complicated to me and I don't really see how it all works!
 

Red

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I'm copying Matthias idea for a table with removable legs from his post here. I swear there used to be a video, but can't find it.

Going to have to think about this shrinkage a bit more after your threaded insert idea. Matthias normally accounts for shrinkage, and mentions it in relation to the top in that post, and as I'm new to it I've taken his word so far.

Maybe an overall image will help convey the project. The blue area is the inset playing area. There will be leafs to cover it for dining mode. The cherry coloured wood will all be glued together, the oak coloured wood will all be glues together. The leg joints are intended to allow the two to slip together and hold in place with screws, with the mortise, tenons and dowels there to align and do the bracing.

For example, to dismantle from the state in the picture you would remove the screws, pull the cherry wood apron away from the table, allowing the table to pass up through the sticking out cherry bit . I hope I explained that ok
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