Planning a workbench - Your thoughts on this design...

[Bodgers]

I've been sketching some potential workbench designs for my first 'proper' bench for hand-tool work etc. I like the European workbench design (e.g. ECE and Ulmia benches), but want the front to have a large flat area where long work pieces can be clamped, as per the Roubo style where the legs are flush to the top.

I saw an article in a German magazine called Holzwerken, where they have designed a bench that is basically a European style bench, but with an apron at the front like Paul Seller's or a Nickelson bench. What is interesting about this bench is that they have short-cut the production of the top by using laminated solid beech worktop type blanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1BMQ-1eKfw

I like this design, but its a bit big for my space, so I sketched out this:

Width is fairly narrow at about 510mm (I might increase this a bit). Length is about 1300mm

I have a reasonable amount of Beech in the form of thick slabs which will need a fair amount of prep work, so basically the top will be a solid Beech 40mm thick worktop (I have been offered a length on the cheap) and then to the under side of that I will laminate some of my beech in two sections below it. I'll probably use Epoxy to minimise any cupping etc.

I plan on putting end-caps on each side using a spline to act as a kind of bread-board end. This will be bolted in to allow movement. Not sure if that is a good idea...

I am also not sure about the vice. I'm going to buy either the Vertias quick release vice or the Sjobergs adjustable vice and attach the front jaw to it. I would like this to be as high as the apron, but I'm not sure if that would induce a lot of racking top and bottom....

https://www.amazon.com/Sjobergs-SJO-333 ... B00M1MREFO

The design has angled legs on one side, this is purely aesthetic, not sure if its a daft idea. I've seen a bench like this before

I have sized everything up and produced a model in Fusion 360. Hopefully, this will help with calculating exact sizes etc.

 

[El Barto]

I await Jacob's response :twisted:

 

[MarkDennehy]

Um. The angled leg thing is to brace the workbench against the forces when hand-planing wood... but you have the wrong end angled and english benches generally just add in another cross-brace rather than a whole leg being canted over:

 

[MikeG.]

My goodness that's tiny.

Is it just the rendering on the programme, or are you really planning to run the grain of the top back-to-front of the bench rather than end-to-end? What do you gain by sloping the RH end legs like that? Frankly, unless this has got a really good practical reason, I just can't see why you'd do it. I know you cited aesthetics as the reason, but part of the aesthetic of a bench is that it looks strong. This doesn't (and for good reason........it isn't!).

Edit: That vice you linked to needs to be mounted high, with a slim jaw. This is going to be really limiting for the size of wood you can work.

 

[Bodgers]

My goodness that's tiny.

Is it just the rendering on the programme, or are you really planning to run the grain of the top back-to-front of the bench rather than end-to-end? What do you gain by sloping the RH end legs like that? Frankly, unless this has got a really good practical reason, I just can't see why you'd do it. I know you cited aesthetics as the reason, but part of the aesthetic of a bench is that it looks strong. This doesn't (and for good reason........it isn't!).

Edit: That vice you linked to needs to be mounted high, with a slim jaw. This is going to be really limiting for the size of wood you can work.

I don't have a lot of space. I don't need it to be big, and I've managed with a Black and Decker workbench for hand tool stuff so far... This sort of thing is pretty small:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/483081497521845275/

The model just shows a wood texture, grain direction not controllable in Fusion as far as I can see.

 

[MikeG.]

If you've only worked on a Workmate you'll love a bench........but please consider having vertical legs and some serious bracing. Otherwise, you're going to have to bolt his thing to the wall.

 

[Bodgers]

If you've only worked on a Workmate you'll love a bench........but please consider having vertical legs and some serious bracing. Otherwise, you're going to have to bolt his thing to the wall.

Where is the bracing needed?

 

[MarkDennehy]

4' long is a bit short compared to this bunch of pampered softies with their "elbow room" and enough space that they don't have to go outside to change their minds, but if you're stuck in an old potting shed, 4' long can be too long.

Seriously Bodgers, recheck your space - make sure the bench leaves you enough room to be able to work at it. For example, you might find it easier to have the face vice in the middle of the bench instead at one leg like the normal design has - there's a good reason for it to be there, it lets the forces on the vice be taken on by the leg more readily - but that's not going to help you if you try to cut into the board only to find your saw plate is hitting the wall before you've pushed the saw more than six inches forwards.

For example, my bench is 5' long and it's in a space 8' wide and it's too big by almost a foot. At some point I'll probably abandon the idea of using the left side and clean out all the stuff to the bench's left side and shove it up against the wall so I can, for example, hold a piece in the vice so that a part of it is hanging off the right end for crosscutting.

Oh, and if you have the legs that close together, you're going to want a fair few sandbags on the bottom shelf to drop its center of gravity, or you could wind up pushing it over accidentally.

 

[Bodgers]

4' long is a bit short compared to this bunch of pampered softies with their "elbow room" and enough space that they don't have to go outside to change their minds, but if you're stuck in an old potting shed, 4' long can be too long.

Seriously Bodgers, recheck your space - make sure the bench leaves you enough room to be able to work at it. For example, you might find it easier to have the face vice in the middle of the bench instead at one leg like the normal design has - there's a good reason for it to be there, it lets the forces on the vice be taken on by the leg more readily - but that's not going to help you if you try to cut into the board only to find your saw plate is hitting the wall before you've pushed the saw more than six inches forwards.

And if you have the legs that close together, you're going to want a fair few sandbags on the bottom shelf to drop its center of gravity, or you could wind up pushing it over accidentally.

Noted on the vice location. I actually saw a design for a small square foot-print bench with the vice in the middle.

Yeah, I thought by having the sort of extended feet (whatever they are called) might help against it being tippy. The whole thing is going to be made from Beech, which is pretty heavy if these slabs I have are anything to go by. Might have a rethink here, maybe make it say 600-620mm wide (that's kitchen top width).

I actually have full use of a 5.2x2.8m garage, but I have a bandsaw, tablesaw and CNC in here, so I didn't want to have this gigantic bench taking over. I have plans to make a couple of chairs, so I thought that's probably the widest thing I will have place fully on top of it, and the chairs I'm looking at are about 480-500 wide.

 

[MarkDennehy]

See, if the top is heavy, that's not going to help you as much when the legs are that close together because you'll be shoving sideways on the very top and even heavy benches are tippy if the legs are close together - mine must weigh most of 200lb (5' long, 2' wide, 4" thick pine top plus 4" square legs (and one 4"x6" one) and the vice hardware), but it's still a bit tippy front-to-back when planing. Or was, until I dumped another hundred pounds of rubbish on the bottom shelf. Now the shed rocks more when I plane.

 

[MikeG.]

If you've only worked on a Workmate you'll love a bench........but please consider having vertical legs and some serious bracing. Otherwise, you're going to have to bolt his thing to the wall.

Where is the bracing needed?

It's a rhombus. Forces along the top (such as when planing, but plenty of other things too) will have the legs acting like they're hinged. A workbench should be tough as old boots, and stable, no matter what is done on it. The reason for the deep skirt on many benches is to provide some bracing. School benches had a sheet of ply stiffening up the cupboard, and preventing any racking. The alternative is a diagonal brace, but this can only be used at the back if access below isn't to be compromised.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Hang on, if you have a large space and milling equipment, you don't really need a full-blown hand tool workbench, it sounds like you're more looking for something to do hand tool joinery on?
Have you seen Shannon Rogers' joinery bench? Might be the ticket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpQprRclcss

 

[Bodgers]

Hang on, if you have a large space and milling equipment, you don't really need a full-blown hand tool workbench, it sounds like you're more looking for something to do hand tool joinery on?
Have you seen Shannon Rogers' joinery bench? Might be the ticket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpQprRclcss

Interesting. You might be right.

I actually considered building something like this:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/626492998134024674/

 

[El Barto]

See, if the top is heavy, that's not going to help you as much when the legs are that close together because you'll be shoving sideways on the very top and even heavy benches are tippy if the legs are close together - mine must weigh most of 200lb (5' long, 2' wide, 4" thick pine top plus 4" square legs (and one 4"x6" one) and the vice hardware), but it's still a bit tippy front-to-back when planing. Or was, until I dumped another hundred pounds of rubbish on the bottom shelf. Now the shed rocks more when I plane.

+1 on this. I have a traditional English style bench which probably weighs about the same as yours and it’s amazing how much movement/force can be generated by planing. Definitely not to be underestimated!

 

[Bodgers]

If you've only worked on a Workmate you'll love a bench........but please consider having vertical legs and some serious bracing. Otherwise, you're going to have to bolt his thing to the wall.

Where is the bracing needed?

It's a rhombus. Forces along the top (such as when planing, but plenty of other things too) will have the legs acting like they're hinged. A workbench should be tough as old boots, and stable, no matter what is done on it. The reason for the deep skirt on many benches is to provide some bracing. School benches had a sheet of ply stiffening up the cupboard, and preventing any racking. The alternative is a diagonal brace, but this can only be used at the back if access below isn't to be compromised.

The was a reason I didn't do A-Level physics

So on this:

The legs are at opposing angles with the bottom stretchers handling the downward 'splaying' out tendency I suppose...

So I would need that kind of setup if I wanted angled legs.

 

[MikeG.]

That would certainly help, as would some serious traditional joints and a big skirt. Or plant a sheet of ply across the back legs and fastened to the top.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I made mine with the back cross member and the front at different heights to help brace against any racking - the bottom shelf is on top of the back one and rests on a batten screwed and glued along the front one. My original top was 30" with a well - the well was a bl00dy nuisance so I reused the two heavy pieces and put a reversible centre piece in - it's flush one way and a stop the other, with a very shallow stop for 12" on one end, which is reversible end to end if necessary for a higher stop. It's now 600mm - 2' - and it's much better.

Don't forget that traditional designs were meant for 5'4" people who manhandled huge pieces of timber to work entirely by hand and who had no modern screws or adhesives.

As an aside, I see no reason for aprons as they get in the way and serve no purpose other than to brace, which if the frame is strong enough is not necessary. (he ducks, covers his head and runs for the hills................................ ).

 

[Bodgers]

https://goo.gl/images/1gNFzr


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[MikeG.]

......... As an aside, I see no reason for aprons as they get in the way and serve no purpose other than to brace, which if the frame is strong enough is not necessary. (he ducks, covers his head and runs for the hills................................ ).

Isn't that a bit like saying "I see no need of bench legs, other than to keep the top up off the floor"?

 

[bugbear]

As an aside, I see no reason for aprons as they get in the way and serve no purpose other than to brace, which if the frame is strong enough is not necessary. (he ducks, covers his head and runs for the hills................................ ).

That is true - but making the frame strong enough takes more material than an apron.

My frame is diagonally braced, and has no apron. I like the way this allows me to clamp stuff DOWN onto the bench top. But there's no right or wrong - only priorities and choices.

BugBear