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Part P - Spitting Feathers (and it isn't what you think)

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mudman

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I used to think that Part P was just another bureaucratic waste of time, but not anymore.

Just had the kitchen fit from hell and after they've gone, I noticed that one of the socket covers was loose and decided to sort it. Having a look I notice that the earth wire is floating loose. Also can't fix the cover as they have left the original back box in and with the addition of plasterboard and tiles, the screws are no too short.

Decided to take the cover off another socket and see how it was fixed to find the box full of dirt, another floating earthwire and a live wire loose in the terminal.

So, ringmain not protected by an earth, scary, appliance develops a fault, no protection. I think I'm right in thinking that this would also stop the RCDs from tripping? Also, what if someone puts a plug in with a good thump that dislodges the live wire that then touches the metal of the socket cover? Not only is the socket now live but no protection from electocution.

Now I can see why my requests for a Part P certificate have been ignored so far.

Anyway, the company that subcontracted out the work to these cowboys have promised to get it sorted and that all necessary certificates will be issued. But until then, which could be a few days, I have to sort it out myself to ensure that it is safe to use.

Not at all happy and what makes it worse is that I'm coming round to the idea that John Prescott may have been right after all. :x

Well, at least I feel better for getting that off my chest.
 

CHJ

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Sorry you have had problemsBarry, hope you put something on record with the company concerned, part 'P' will still not have achieved anything unless someone disciplines or prosecutes the cowboy electrician concerned and stops him earning a living whilst carrying out such shoddy work. What If you had not got the knowledge to check the workmanship?
Many members of the public with no interest in how electricity gets to their kettle are not even aware of part 'P' requirements.
 

OLD

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On a ring main the earth wires on the i/c and o/g cables should have a green yellow sleave and be terminated on the socket also a similar wire should run from the metal socket box to the second earth terminal on the socket
RCD works on balanced current if you have the same in both live and neutral its ok if the live touches the metal box and some current flows through the masonry( if the box is not earthed )it trips.If its earthed obviously it trips
 

mudman

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I guess you are right Chas. I only know about Part P from this board and most other customers won't know anything about it. I do know a bit about electricity, but nothing about the rules and regs and so in general leave it alone. If the one cover hadn't been loose, I would never have checked.
The chap in question is telephoning me tommorrow and I guarantee that he will be fully aware of his obligations under the law and the penalties involved by the end of the conversation.

Old,
So hopefully not as dangerous as it appeared, but still dangerous to my mind.
I must admit to having forgotten how rcds work so any other faults shouldn't be fatal. Clever little beasts really and I bet they've saved a few lives since they were introduced.

Anyway, I've fixed the obvious faults but I want all the rest checked over and all the relevant certificates presented. I'm thinking that otherwise there could be an insurance problem if there ever was a fire originating in the kitchen.

Blooming annoying though, wasted an entire afternoon sorting this out that I had planned other things for. Especially since the family were all out of the way.
 

CHJ

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mudman":3v9h7ezx said:
...snip....
So hopefully not as dangerous as it appeared, but still dangerous to my mind.
I must admit to having forgotten how rcds work so any other faults shouldn't be fatal. Clever little beasts really and I bet they've saved a few lives since they were introduced.
...snip...
Although a 30ma RCD is a far safer bet and will trip on fault conditions which may not involve an earth wire, (a faulty 2 core garden extension lead for instance) with considerably less fire risk etc. If it is your body that is providing the path for the 30ma imbalance then it is still no guarantee that it will save your life, it just increases the odds in your favour, a bit like the adds saying that you have a better chance of survival if hit by a car doing 30mph than one doing 60.
 
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30mA RCD, if working correctly, will trip in under 30mS and WILL save your life unless there are other medical conditions that come into play such as a dicky ticker
 

RogerS

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Which raises an interesting point...wouldn't it have been more sensible to simply insist that all houses (old and new build) had to have a consumer unit fitted with an RCD? Phased in over say 5 years ?

Easy to check ...at time of meter reading...then we can all carry on doing our own thing :lol:
 

CHJ

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Tony":3q58etk7 said:
30mA RCD, if working correctly, will trip in under 30mS and WILL save your life unless there are other medical conditions that come into play such as a dicky ticker
Two big caveats there Tony,

"if working correctly" and "unless there are other medical conditions"

I for one will not intentionally be checking the response of my RCD's with anything other than a test meter.
 
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True Chas

However, I do have RCD test gear and have yet to fail one when tesing an installation - I think that they are pretty reliable
 

CHJ

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Roger Sinden":1ic5rjzn said:
Which raises an interesting point...wouldn't it have been more sensible to simply insist that all houses (old and new build) had to have a consumer unit fitted with an RCD? Phased in over say 5 years ?

Easy to check ...at time of meter reading...then we can all carry on doing our own thing :lol:
But that would mean enforced expenditure on every household, not a popular exercise.

But even then jo public would not be protected from all accidents, if you catch hold of both live and neutral at the same time (end of chopped 2 core cable for instance) the RCD does not know the difference and assumes you want all the power you can handle. (and no, a hedge trimmer does not always blow the fuse)
 

RogerS

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CHJ":h3eh73y1 said:
Roger Sinden":h3eh73y1 said:
Which raises an interesting point...wouldn't it have been more sensible to simply insist that all houses (old and new build) had to have a consumer unit fitted with an RCD? Phased in over say 5 years ?

Easy to check ...at time of meter reading...then we can all carry on doing our own thing :lol:
But that would mean enforced expenditure on every household, not a popular exercise.
What price safety?

CHJ":h3eh73y1 said:
But even then jo public would not be protected from all accidents, if you catch hold of both live and neutral at the same time (end of chopped 2 core cable for instance) the RCD does not know the difference and assumes you want all the power you can handle. (and no, a hedge trimmer does not always blow the fuse)
But then nothing in Part P would save you either :D
 
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