Panel Plane identification

[Karl]

Hi all

Please excuse my complete ignorance of historical plane manufacturers, but I have had a recent e-bay purchase delivered today, and I am eager to find out more.

Here is the link to the plane


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=300173612755&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020

Ok, so I bought this plane after a little rush of blood to the head. But, having received it, I am generally very pleased, and would like to try and find out more. Here seemed a good place to start :lol:

There are no markings on the plane. On the rear of the lever cap is stamped "2 1/2" - presumably for the size of the iron. The iron itself is stamped " W.Marples & Sons, Warranted Cast Steel, Hibernia" and has a Shamrock sign. The rear of the iron has a T stamped into it. The Cap Iron is marked "Wm Marples and Sons" and again has the Shamrock mark.

The front knob has been re-shaped in the past. Also, a couple of the screws on the sides have been tampered with (slight camming out - :evil: ). I inted to replace the handles at some point in the future, after i've tackled the sole (slightly concave - hollow round mouth).

So - any ideas on manufacturer - Wm Marples & Sons make planes like this???? Any ideas for dates? Or other sources for me to look up? As I say, my knowledge of old planes is extremely limited.

And, most importantly, was my rash purchase worth it? £114, inc p&p.

All help/suggestions most welcome.

Cheers

Karl

 

[woodbloke]

Karl- I'm no expert either on these things but it could be a Mathieson, similar to the one I'm going to restore later. You can see from the pic that the casting shape is similar:

and I've been reliably informed by others on the forum that this one could well be a Mathieson of about 1900 vintage or there abouts....needs a tad more work on it than yours tho' :wink: I think if I had won that plane then I would also replace the handle and totes, that round front knob looks strange to me. I don't know whether £114 is a reasonable price or not, should give years of good service...would be very interested to hear what you do with it and how it performs - Rob

 

[Karl]

Hi Rob

The handles are definitely going - when I have time to do it. And the courage.....

In the meantime, i'm going to flatten the sole & sharpen the chunky blade and see what it cuts like.

And those screws on the side will need replacing with ones similair to originals.

I expect it will be a great plane once up and running - although the mouth is a little wider than I would have liked for taking fine cuts. But then I don't suppose that was the original purpose of the plane.

Hope somebody out there can give me pointers to manufacturer/dates etc. It'd be nice to have a bit of background to go with it.

Cheers

Karl

 

[woodbloke]

Karly wrote:

although the mouth is a little wider than I would have liked

If it's not the original iron, then it may well be a fraction thinner. In that case what you could do is to fix a piece of veneer with double sided tape onto the escarpment where the flat part of the blade makes contact, this will have the effect of moving the blade forwards by the thickness of the veneer which ought to close the mouth significantly. Incidentally, the iron should be parallel, tapered irons (I believe) are only used in wooden planes - Rob

 

[bugbear]

Karl- I'm no expert either on these things but it could be a Mathieson, similar to the one I'm going to restore later. You can see from the pic that the casting shape is similar:

and I've been reliably informed by others on the forum that this one could well be a Mathieson of about 1900 vintage or there abouts..

Since Mathieson made their own (rather good) blades, it would speak against Karlley's plane being a Mathieson (unless the Marples are replacements).

On price, even if one replaces all the wood, and the blades, that seems "OK" for a large (seasoned!) casting and brass lever cap.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

BB- I would suspect that Karly's blade may well be a replacement....even on the pitiful apology for a plane that I'm going to refurb, the original blade assy had been lost aeons ago - Rob

 

[mahking51]

even on the pitiful apology for a plane that I'm going to refurb

!!!!
Splutter! :x :x :evil: I'll have you know that is a piece of history..... :lol: :lol:
Martin

 

[woodbloke]

even on the pitiful apology for a plane that I'm going to refurb

!!!!
Splutter! :x :x :evil: I'll have you know that is a piece of history..... :lol: :lol:
Martin

Sorry Martin :lol: ...it will look a tad better by the time I've done with it, poor choice of words...my error. Have discussed at length with Pete (Newt) various ways to do the refurb on the metalwork. Quite looking forward to doing this one as it's probably the most ambitious refurb that I've yet attempted, got Elm Cabinet MkII to do first tho' - Rob

 

[Karl]

Hi all

I've started to dismantle the plane. Having a b1tch of a time with one screw - would be the last one I came to :x Don't really want to smash the rear handle to pieces just to get the screw out, but may not have a choice.

I am planning on putting some nicely figured timber in for the handles - maybe Cocbolo or a nice Rosedwood. After a polish up it should be a nice looking plane.

Rob - I read your comments about adding a veneer to the blade seating area. Interestingly, it looks like a previous owner has done this before - there is a fine veneer glued onto the relevant area.

So does anybody have any way of identifying the manufacturer of the plane? Or am I consigned to not ever knowing?

Cheers

Karl

 

[wayne]

Karl, For what it is worth, the lever cap and screw do appear to match that of Woodbloke's Mathieson. -Wayne Anderson

 

[bugbear]

So does anybody have any way of identifying the manufacturer of the plane? Or am I consigned to not ever knowing?

AFAIK (there are much deeper experts than I) the shape of the lever cap and knob can be quite indicative. They also don't get switched out like blades...

But I don't know where to look for "reference" caps to compare to.

Perhaps if you post the best photo you can "somewhere", experts, or "owners of the right match" may chip in.

BugBear

 

[Karl]

So, after a lot of blue air, I managed to get the final screw removed, and was able to remove the handles in one piece. Here are a few photo's of the plane broken down into its constituent parts.

Hope this may shed some further light on things. The casting is free of any identifying marks.

Wayne - I had a similair thought about the Lever Cap on Rob's plane. Rob - could you post a piccy so i can have a look. Also, does yours have the "2 1/2" stamped on the underside????

Re: blade/cap iron. I appreciate these may have been changed at some point in the past. The fact that the rear handle has a thin veneer glued to the blade seating area would seem to imply that the blade was in fact replaced at some point, and a previous user was trying to obtain a tighter mouth.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I cannot make out the images here, but BB posted the lever cap and screw on WoodNet. Based on these I would say that they were made by Spier - not because I have any great knowledge of such things, but because they strongly resemble the ones on my Spier smoother.

Rear of lever cap...

Note the number 5. The "2 1/2" is an assembly number.

Lever cap front (taken when I was playing around with screws - since discarded) ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

I found this useful gallery (via google images)

http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/Gallery-1.htm

The screw on the Mathieson 24" jointer looks like a good match. The Spiers I've found so far don't have that "pointy" centre.

The Norris lever caps seem more substantial.

No "dead" matches, I'm afraid.

Another helpful gallery:
http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/gallery/tbgallery.htm

http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/gallery/g8.htm

Trinders:

http://www.20thcenturyfashion.co.uk/tft/tarchive.htm

T520 looks promising

http://www.20thcenturyfashion.co.uk/tft/t608.jpg

Best yet?

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

BB, I must disagree. In the reference I left for you on WoodNet the discussion not only depicted lever caps but also their screws. The screw in the picture you posted is a match for the Spier.

Here is the reference:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/pla ... mooth5.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Karl]

Thanks for the replies guys.

BB - some of those links were most illuminating. A few of the Mathieson planes had Lever Cap screws which looked identical to mine.

Derek - I had a look at your screw and it doesn't match exactly with mine - the top seems to have a wider "rim".

However, I have just inspected the Lever Cap itself. And stamped on the rear is the number "5" - very faint, and only just visible in the right play of light. At first I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me, but it is definitely there. So that would seem to match in with your experience?

Cheers

Karl

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Karl

In my limited experience, gleaned when I was researching my Spier restoration, it was apparent that designs changed over the years. It is more likely that you will find some variations, that is, that designs are not set in concrete. It is also quite possible that you could have parts from different planes.

No doubt there is also a "family look", planes of an era resembling one another. I thought that both the lever cap and screw were very close matches with the Spier items I have seen, the former was almost exact while the latter was "close enough" (if not exact).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

BB, I must disagree. In the reference I left for you on WoodNet the discussion not only depicted lever caps but also their screws. The screw in the picture you posted is a match for the Spier.

Here is the reference:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/pla ... mooth5.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

More specifically:

Pretty good match, I agree. Do I gather from the context that the CAP photo is yours, and the SCREW photo is Martin Hagen?

BugBear

 

[Karl]

Having seen those photo's side by side, it does seem a pretty good match.

So the relevance of the No 5 - that the lever cap/screw came from a Spiers/Mathieson plane?

On further inspection, I suspect that Derek's suggestion of the plane being an amalgamation of different planes may be true. The original holes in the side of the plane which accepted the screws to hold the lever cap have been filled in, and new ones drilled and countersunk. why? It was only moved about 1/4" towards the rear of the plane - surely there would have been enough play in the screw to accomodate any change in blade???

All adds to the history of the plane I supose :lol:

Cheers

Karl

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Do I gather from the context that the CAP photo is yours, and the SCREW photo is Martin Hagen?

Hi BB

Yes, the cap is mine and the screw is Martin's.

Here is my often depicted artistic pose

Regards from Perth

Derek