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Old tiny crosscut saw

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Brill88

Tom Brill general woodworker and woodsman
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Can’t work out if this was a tool box saw which seems unlikely given the age of it and then I also thought of a child’s saw for w wealthy family as the handles tiny
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Nigel Burden

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I have some S&J saws. The handle size does differ from one to the other. One that I bought off eBay for a fiver had a cracked bade that was a full 22" long. I cut it off to make a short cross cut saw, the handle is smaller than my other S&J saws that I've re handled due to the handles being too large.

IMG_0364.JPG
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You can see the difference in handle size of the cut off cross cut saw and a later purchased saw.
That saw now has a new handle.

IMG_0386.JPG


It is my understanding that manufacturers made different sized handles years ago, unlike todays, post 1960s, one size fits all.

Nigel
 
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IWW

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Brill, what you have looks like a "panel saw" but I'm used to seeing Disstons, which had 4 handle bolts (as opposed to 5 on their full-sized hand saws). The 3 bolts & smaller handle on your saw are a good indicator it's meant to be small & is not a cut-down of a full-size saw, which exist in goodly numbers as a result of accidents & a need to fit saws in toolboxes. Your saw might have had a bit removed from its nose for some reason (not an uncommon event), because the nib section looks a bit out of proportion to me. I would've expected the cut-down part in front of the nib to be about 25-30mm longer, but my eyes are conditioned to looking at Disstons & perhaps S&J had a different idea of proportion.

Disston made panel saws in blade lengths of 16-24". The most common sizes I've come across in this part of the world are 18" & 20", & I have a 20 inch, 11PPI (10tpi) rip D-20 and a 10PPI xcut 18" D-8. The D-20 blade came from a saw-collecting friend, sans handle, but the blade was still in very good condition & hardly worn for a 100yr old saw (the ppi stamp is still there under the handle). I made a new handle for it, working from pictures of D-20 handles on the "Disstonian" site and the 'shadow' of the old handle on the blade. It's not an exact copy of an original, but very close in the essentials: D20 11ppi rip.jpg
This one gets the most use of my two panel saws, it is extremely handy for ripping small, short pieces that would be awkward or dangerous to feed to powered saws. The x-cut is handy occasionally, especially if I need to work away from home, but for most 'serious' cross-cutting I tend to reach for a full-sized saw, which gives me comfortable long strokes rather than the choppy action of a short blade.

Cheers,
Ian
 

Brill88

Tom Brill general woodworker and woodsman
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Brill, what you have looks like a "panel saw" but I'm used to seeing Disstons, which had 4 handle bolts (as opposed to 5 on their full-sized hand saws). The 3 bolts & smaller handle on your saw are a good indicator it's meant to be small & is not a cut-down of a full-size saw, which exist in goodly numbers as a result of accidents & a need to fit saws in toolboxes. Your saw might have had a bit removed from its nose for some reason (not an uncommon event), because the nib section looks a bit out of proportion to me. I would've expected the cut-down part in front of the nib to be about 25-30mm longer, but my eyes are conditioned to looking at Disstons & perhaps S&J had a different idea of proportion.

Disston made panel saws in blade lengths of 16-24". The most common sizes I've come across in this part of the world are 18" & 20", & I have a 20 inch, 11PPI (10tpi) rip D-20 and a 10PPI xcut 18" D-8. The D-20 blade came from a saw-collecting friend, sans handle, but the blade was still in very good condition & hardly worn for a 100yr old saw (the ppi stamp is still there under the handle). I made a new handle for it, working from pictures of D-20 handles on the "Disstonian" site and the 'shadow' of the old handle on the blade. It's not an exact copy of an original, but very close in the essentials: View attachment 107799
This one gets the most use of my two panel saws, it is extremely handy for ripping small, short pieces that would be awkward or dangerous to feed to powered saws. The x-cut is handy occasionally, especially if I need to work away from home, but for most 'serious' cross-cutting I tend to reach for a full-sized saw, which gives me comfortable long strokes rather than the choppy action of a short blade.

Cheers,
Ian
Just thought it was interesting when I saw it at a car boot was covered in paint and rust and the handle had a small brake but all repaired now and you’d never know I just thought it’s a lovely little thing the handle is tiny but then again I’ve got farmers hands I’ve been told but it’s not usable for me as I can barley hold it lol
 

IWW

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...... I just thought it’s a lovely little thing the handle is tiny but then again I’ve got farmers hands I’ve been told but it’s not usable for me as I can barley hold it lol.....
'Tis a nice little saw, I'm pleased it has found a new master to give it a good home. :)

You must have whopping hands, though! While the handles of panel saws were definitely smaller, I've not met one that wouldn't allow three fingers of an average hand through easily enough - are you trying to put all 4 fingers through?

Without getting into arguments about the "proper" way to hold a saw, there is no doubt the saw handles of old were made for the traditional "3-finger" hold, i.e. 3 fingers wrapped around the grip and the index finger laid along the outside of the handle, pointing at the tip of the blade (roughly). Sometime around the mid 20th century, as handles degenerated into vaguely handle-like objects & plastic began to replace wood, they got larger holes & longer grips, so folks could use them with gloves on (or so the story goes). These will easily accommodate all 4 fingers of a bare hand around the grip, and it's quite common to see people using them thus. Looks awkward to anyone who has been indoctrinated in the "proper" way, but whatever works for you, works......
Cheers,
Ian
 

Brill88

Tom Brill general woodworker and woodsman
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'Tis a nice little saw, I'm pleased it has found a new master to give it a good home. :)

You must have whopping hands, though! While the handles of panel saws were definitely smaller, I've not met one that wouldn't allow three fingers of an average hand through easily enough - are you trying to put all 4 fingers through?

Without getting into arguments about the "proper" way to hold a saw, there is no doubt the saw handles of old were made for the traditional "3-finger" hold, i.e. 3 fingers wrapped around the grip and the index finger laid along the outside of the handle, pointing at the tip of the blade (roughly). Sometime around the mid 20th century, as handles degenerated into vaguely handle-like objects & plastic began to replace wood, they got larger holes & longer grips, so folks could use them with gloves on (or so the story goes). These will easily accommodate all 4 fingers of a bare hand around the grip, and it's quite common to see people using them thus. Looks awkward to anyone who has been indoctrinated in the "proper" way, but whatever works for you, works......
Cheers,
Ian
No more like holding a gun so three fingers in the grip and the index finger pointing along the saw I don’t know why I do this just makes sense I’ve never thought about it I find modern saws a bit clumsy if I’m honest I think there meant to be used with a gloves hand perhaps . But modern hand tools are mostly pretty naff when conppared to older tools unless your looking at companies like people le nielson or veritas or some of the small hand tool makers that are about now but for a saw like what some of these craftsman make your looking at hundreds of pounds for a saw but I imagine in the day a disston d8 would be a fair sum of money
 

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