Old British Bandsaws

[Ttrees]

This Italian Centauro 24" (with a Startrite badge) is going for 745 in Manchester, and has a 'dual voltage motor' which means can be easily run from an inverter/VFD, simples, even from a 13a plug... as you can tailor it to suit the harsh startup inertia by adjusting the ramp up time in seconds, once running consumes very little power, my old laptop used about the same juice as my slightly lighter framed but equivalent 3hp motor, and solid cast iron wheeled ACM 24" machine whilst running idle.

The big wheels means that it makes easy work of it, so is likely less consumptive that a smaller wheeled machine having a hard time.


A single phase equivalent would likely need 16 amp sockets (blue plugs, often used to be called commando), as starting big wheels in less than a second often requires having the sparky in to upgrade the consumer unit, if not up to scratch.

Other modern style saws (welded sheet metal not cast iron) made in UK, which you might stumble across are Wadkin machines like C5 or C500 20", with compact tables and Multico's a rarer sight, if you wanted something around that size
I'd guess they get quite a bit bigger after 20"...

These sheet metal saws will very likely have standard bearings, a fiver each for good ones like SKF, compared to poured lead babbitt bearings on the cast iron stuff.
Some folk like myself might be weary of that.

Having a big table is very nice to have, feels safer being further away from the blade, less dusty aswell, and if the machine has a good sized cabinet to capture it, helps too.
Might be a consideration if you haven't got the leccy done and wanting to have a proper DC setup in future.

At the same time, a small table might be nice for someone who doesn't have the space for a 24" machine, so might opt for something like this Wadkin 20 incher C500 (500mm wheeels)
That was going for 800 or 850 pounds pre-pandemic prices, if that has made an impact?

A bit more compact again is the Far Eastern machines, the column isn't as wide
and the cabinet is snugger around the wheels on this 20" machine.

And smaller again or maybe the same size an old Felder or ACM machine, that's a FB 400 below, I think made by ACM in Italy, nowadays they're made in Austria.

The 440mm versions of these saws are a more common design feature of these Italian saws nowadays, and are ever so slightly heavier built than the 400,500,600 models, which seem to be getting phased out.
All Italian saws are very similar and share a lot of parts.

533 × 800

Those last few saws have the same foot print as this PITA 315 saw at the folks.
The saw's puny innards in that wee thing below aren't able to tension a half decent blade, which makes using the rip fence not possible, even for ripping pallet boards.
i.e ripping needs to be freehanded, or a point fence used instead.

You likely will find you'll have to wait for a 20" Italian, Multico or Wadkin to come up cheap, the sweet spot in size for many folks. (and often priced accordingly)
200kgs is a nice weight for a 440 or 500mm machine and will handle a 3/4" blade reliably.

A 3/4" blade...tensioned well enough, will have enough 'beam tension' not to "give in" so to speak, and get pushed off the wheels, resulting in a screaming and rapidly degrading thrust bearing.
This might be an important factor if wanting a quieter machine.

Moving it...
No problem for one person to move a 200kg saw, with table off first, (obviously) and tilted down easily, pivots with no weight until it gets about waist high, and then its about a 40kg bag of coal weight for the last bit, when the column is lowered onto a bearer or dolly and then onto a trailer with bearers so you can get your hands well underneath it, and not stoop so much.
Its how the shop owner moved it around in the tall box, whilst using an undersized looking trolley, and I was following him around, diving left and right of him as it looked very tippy on that rough ground.

Compared to the wee green saw it was probably easier to get that 20 incher onto a trailer, than to get the wee green one into a jeep.
The size of the 20" distributes the weight much more evenly, every part of the green saw is heavy and doesn't lend itself well to pivoting.

I had to lift my 24" saw weighing 280kg (when assembled) from the front, due to rafter clearance, and I found it about twice as difficult to move this way, compared to lifting from the column.
Very heavy like this, two man job really, and a sturdy chair/horse likely needed for changing lifting positions.
I have brought it on a trailer both ways also, column and front, same again easier from the column.

I could have made it easier for myself by taking the wheels off, as I was doing without a second dolly, so was tough to get it moved around.
Even with two dolly's, the top wheel might be worth removing if it must be lifted the same way from the front for roof clearance
As said two men job really, but not impossible.

Attempting stand it up gently, I'm neither that heavy nor tall, it plonks upright with a good thud, so a thin sheet of ply on the floor might be nice to have if the paint job is still in good nick.
This comical pick from the internet might make sense, it must have been rolled on pipe to get there.

If I had to put it upright on my own, I'd make sure it couldn't keel over the other way by lifting against the wall.

It might be worth looking at the larger, cheaper ,more commonly found deal 24" machines if one local comes up cheap.
Remember to search for band saw aswell as bandsaw, and even 3 phase machinery.
Just make sure you can see that it's got a dual voltage motor, look on the motor nameplate for either 220/240v, a triangle symbol, a D for DELTA or for the instructions to switch the
3 straps over to your 240v household voltage, like with the Centauro one listed.

Examples of dual voltage motors below

Myfordman (Bob) has written an extensive article on induction motors and VFD's
which is more than just worth a read.
Don't be put off by the extensive information, its the best you will find.
Have a read of some of the posts of VFD's on here first, before diving in, to make sense of what's what.

Induction motor information here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrXNsNxTlQzd6aldlQjJtUDQ/view?usp=sharing


Hope that helps some
All the best
Tom

 

[Dave the woodworker]

As a warning, I contacted someone on Facebook market concerning a small old
Scheppach Band Saw, local to me. I asked to see it working. No response. It was originally advertised at £100 I now see it is advertised at £95. If a seller is not willing to demonstrate a working machine the words "quality" mean nothing.

 

[Sandyn]

Thomas Robinson and sons 1950's Awesome!

Now that is a REAL bandsaw!!! what a machine!!

 

[RobinBHM]

Plenty of Wadkin BZBs come up for sale.

I went to see one a few years ago, guy couldn't get a seller and wanted it gone for £600

It was the biggest BZB 30" and too big for the space I had sadly

 

[alz]

More modest is my old JCB bench bandsaw, a 27ins high but very heavy relic. It has small brass plate with Dependable Tools C27 and was powered by an English Electric 1/4hp motor serial S00220/55, so guess 1955?
Still completely operative, but old drive belt perished and not sure what would work with it now.

 

[Reginald]

If forum members have old British or European made bandsaws please advise me of what they are. Why you like them, or not.

I bought an old bansaw from my workplace for £50 it's 24" weighs a heck of a lot big cast iron beast with a 2hp brooks motor dated 1936 no makers plate but a guy on badger Worksop just restored a smaller one of the same make it's so solid and quiet with big capacity had to make a fdolly to move it .