Oilstone sharpening pre-1880?

[bugbear]

To anyone using oilstones "these days" it's pretty much standard to have a Norton India fine and an Arkansas, possibly with something in between.

But these were not really a feasible buy for a UK cabinetmaker, pre 1880.

As per "Natural 19th & Early 20th Century Sharpening Stones and Hones" there's really nothing in nature with
the speed/hardness combination of India/Alox, and there's little in the UK as good as Arkansas.

We know that carvers just stropped, very regularly, on leather dressed with jewellers rouge, once they'd ground in the shape, and this practice pretty much continues amongst modern carvers.

But - what would a Shoreditch cabinetmaker have used, and how?

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

There was a whole range of natural stone available in many parts of the country and anything any good would tend to be bought and transported further afield. We had a local stone from a quarry at Little Eaton (softish pink sandstone) which apparently was exported, in the familiar 8x2x1" form, as wheels and other sizes too.

It perhaps was not just the quality of the stone but more to do with being close to the centre of the industrial revolution with good rail, road and canal links.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

We know that imported Turkey stones had been around for many years; there is a Turkey sharpening stone and a couple of slips in Benjamin Seaton's tool-chest (1797), and his stomping-ground was not that far from London. Walter Rose ('The Village Carpenter') recalls the use of Charnley Forest stones, and the sheer amount of rubbing needed to get an edge. He also recalls that Charnley Forests were dressed with emery powder to make them cut quicker, though that had a detrimental effect on the quality of the resulting edge. He also recalls how fast they were abandoned when man-made sharpening stones became available.

Holtzappfel Vol. III (1850) states on page 1081 of the Turkey oilstone "As a whetstone, it surpasses every other known substance, and possesses, in an eminent degree, the property of abrading the hardest steel, and is at the same time, of so compact and close a nature, as to resist the pressure necessary for sharpening a graver, or other small instrument of that description."

 

[Jacob]

More local stone here - flour milling and metal grinding stones from the same source. http://www.peakscan.freeuk.com/geology.htm

 

[bugbear]

I was, perhaps, not clear enough in my question.

Lacking stones of the performance level of an india fine or arkansas, what particular stones did they use, how coarse/fine were the stones (the cutting particles), how durable were the stones (the bond), and did they craftsmen use different technique to compensate for the lower performance stones.

Sandstones can be used to work metal, but only as grindstones; they're too coarse and too poorly bonded to work well as a bench abrasive.

There's documentary evidence that a technique used with Charnley Forest stones was to spend ages sharpening.

BugBear

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Looking at the Sheffield Industrial museums trust site for the Shepherd wheel, they mention grinding and glazing wheels, but without mention of what the latter were made of.

http://www.simt.co.uk/shepherd-wheel-wo ... -buildings

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They undoubtedly used a house brick.







Sorry...

 

[bugbear]

Looking at the Sheffield Industrial museums trust site for the Shepherd wheel, they mention grinding and glazing wheels, but without mention of what the latter were made of.

http://www.simt.co.uk/shepherd-wheel-wo ... -buildings

Polishing wheels, covered in leather, then treated with loose abrasives, held with glue.

I think.

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

What about slates - I have some ancient ones that have been passed down the family and they look like slate?
My Great Grandfather was a Wheelwright back in the 1860's

Rod

 

[AndyT]

BB - not sure if you saw this related thread - https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/another-sharpening-thread-but-with-a-twist-t84460.html - but that was about looking a long way back, and you want more recent stuff.

I think the historical evidence is going to be a bit thin.

There are great big gaps in the history of tools and their use. For a general description of the problems, I rather like the efforts of Raymond McInnis at http://www.woodworkinghistory.com/. His site is a big rambling exploration through old texts, diy manuals and more, trying to bring together many topics, each of which can expand to a lifetime's study in itself. His introduction reminds us of the difficulties, but it also has this handy picture of tools from the Mary Rose, which includes a natural whetstone in a box.

As CheshireChappie has said, a good bit of evidence is that the Seaton Chest has a Turkey stone. It was bought from Christopher Gabriel in London. In their 1997 book "Christopher Gabriel and the Tool Trade in 18th Century London" Jane and Mark Rees included surviving inventories of Gabriel's stock in trade. Alongside all the planes, saws, chisels etc there were in 1791:

30 lb Waste Turkey Stone, valued at 10 shillings
1 cwt 1 quarter 15½ lb Cutt Turkey Stone, valued at £7 15s 6d.
2 cwt 1 quarter 11 lb Ruff ditto, worth £8 16s
125 slips of ditto, £3 2s 6d
and
28lb of Blue Stone, worth 8 shillings, which the Reeses note was probably slate. They also note that "the trade in Turkey stone is an unresearched area."

That's it for sharpening kit if you shopped at Gabriel's. No other sorts of stone, not even a grindstone.

As for descriptions of use, I agree that the Walter Rose quotation is the most informative, telling us pretty clearly that the old natural stones were indeed much slower in use than man made equivalents.

Moxon (1703) sums up whetting in less than one page. First you grind, on a big revolving grindstone. Then:

I think the logical conclusion is, as you have said, that the old method was to use what was available and carry on rubbing until the edge was sharp.

 

[bugbear]

I think the logical conclusion is, as you have said, that the old method was to use what was available and carry on rubbing until the edge was sharp.

Moxon (Thank you!) seems to be describing "modern" hollow grinding, including its benefit in reducing honing area/time. The giveaway
is the reference to grinding again when the hollow is gone.

The list of stones used is quite well known - but we also know the performance
of many of the stones listed - it was technique/sequence/angles I was looking for.

(IIRC the 1950 article from Woodworker had some statements about old techniques from someone 60 years closer
to them than we are)

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

....
I think the logical conclusion is, as you have said, that the old method was to use what was available and carry on rubbing until the edge was sharp.

Well yes. Then as now. Unlikely that techniques would differ much in detail, from the many varieties we all talk about.

As for identifying properties of sharpening stones - almost anything will do so it might be easier to consider materials which are definitely unsuitable.

 

[bugbear]

I've found a surprisingly detailed description in Peter Nicholson's "Mechanic's Companion", a 1831 reprint of his "Mechanical Exercises" of 1812.

The grinding is really low (too low for edge holding) which is "...for the quicker dispatch of wetting it".
The secondary bevel ("near to the perpendicular") is worked with a sequence of two stones, the "rub" and the "turkey".
When the secondary bevel gets too big, you grind again.

It's classic double bevel (*), as seen in all the text books in my collection (but I don't have anything as early as 1812).

BugBear

(* with a little bit of hollow grinding thrown in)

 

[AndyT]

I should have looked at Nicholson as well. It's interesting to see how he keeps everything that Moxon says, but adds significant and useful details, such as differential pressure to make a cambered grind, the reference to Turkey stone as a specific type of whetstone and the use of sweet oil rather than spit!