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DTR

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More silly questions from me. Can anyone identify this stone for me please?



It has a greenish hue that hasn't really shown up in the photo. It is very hard, so hard that it doesn't actually seem to do anything.

Also, I understand it is best to wipe a stone clean after use. What do you use? I've been using an old rag but on my coarser stones it leaves little fibres all over the surface.

Thanks
 

jimi43

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An English green hued stone is Charnley Forest.....

I think yours is one.

I have a small Charnley Forest:



I use it as a waterstone...although you can use it with oil...I don't like oil on these.

I use a Belgian Coticule for fine work:



....a lovely natural stone that commands quite large amounts of money these days...this one was 50p at a bootfair..covered in crud!

I have a bit of a thing for old hones...



...they are fun to collect and test out to see what is best.

Don't forget...these are for fine honing edge tools (plane irons and chisels etc...) but also favoured for cut-throat razors...

Some are very very fine...yours...if a Charnley Forest...is for the final hone...

Grind the bevel on a wheel (Tormek etc...) and then hone a microbevel on it with your stone...

It should be razor sharp then.

Jim
 

Jacob

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DTR":ef35bh8d said:
More silly questions from me. Can anyone identify this stone for me please?



It has a greenish hue that hasn't really shown up in the photo. It is very hard, so hard that it doesn't actually seem to do anything.
Could be black Arkansas?
Also, I understand it is best to wipe a stone clean after use. What do you use? I've been using an old rag but on my coarser stones it leaves little fibres all over the surface.

Thanks
Use a cloth which doesn't leave fibres all over the surface. :roll:
Hint - try different cloths.
NB you don't need to scrub at it, just a quick wipe to lift off the oil and the debris within it. Otherwise the debris gets left behind and embedded in the stone surface.
 

matthewwh

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Glad to see some of that Yorkshire dryness has managed to seep south of the border Jacob!

You may find that flattening it will enliven the performance, if the surface grit has become rounded and the pores clogged with old oil and crud then it won't cut properly.
 

Jacob

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matthewwh":oq4pluec said:
Glad to see some of that Yorkshire dryness has managed to seep south of the border Jacob!

You may find that flattening it will enliven the performance, if the surface grit has become rounded and the pores clogged with old oil and crud then it won't cut properly.
Doesn't need to be literally flat (unless you are struggling with jigs :roll: ) but does need "refreshing" at intervals. I use a 3m Diapad (because I've got one) but other abrasives will do it - just a quick pass every now and then and a quick wipe to remove the debris.
 

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Jacob":1d3do78q said:
Doesn't need to be literally flat (unless you are struggling with jigs :roll: )
No need to struggle with jigs - just use them. :D :D :D

I don't think it could be a black Arkansas (with greenish hue...). Both colour and texture are quite different. A brief confirmatory glance at "Natural 19th and Early 20th Century Sharpening Stones and Hones" from TATHS confirms that Charnley Forest is the most likely.

BugBear
 

jimi43

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mickthetree":2r2w1umj said:
jimi43":2r2w1umj said:
I have a bit of a thing for old hones...
just hones Jim? :wink: :wink: :wink:
Ah...yes...you mean the ancient tool "museum" do you Mick...

I would accept "minder" or "curator" but shy away from "the other c word"....

Have to keep up the pretence!! :mrgreen:

I have a Black Arkansas BB and it is um....black...strangely...so that is what leads me to think Charnleywood.....but I must say here that it is extremely difficult to work out the origin of hones....without provenance or a label or box with the name on it.

My Yellow Lake hone for instance:



....a Welsh "slate", is indistinguishable from other Welsh slates or indeed...some Arkansas stones but the clue is in the size....and shape...oh...and it's written on the box! :mrgreen:

Very often...the stone is removed from the packaging/labels and set in a homemade box...and then it becomes virtually anonymous...known only to a long-dead owner.

One thing that has come to my mind though Dave...the Charnley I have will form a slurry very easily with water...yours, being contaminated with oil ( :mrgreen: ) may not though. You need to rub another stone against it to do this although a finger does it with mine very easily. The black Arkansas does not do this so easily...

Jim
 

jimi43

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Bleedin' NORA!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Someone's snip engine went AWOL there...£65 to just over two grand in a few seconds....

Doesn't make sense.....

I was watching this guy's stones just this week...he had some beautiful Coticules which went for quite a bit but just over the hundred.....that's insane! There's something wrong there....

Or is there! :mrgreen: :wink:

I better make sure I lock the workshop tonight then! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

DTR

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bugbear":me1ges5r said:
I don't think it could be a black Arkansas (with greenish hue...). Both colour and texture are quite different. A brief confirmatory glance at "Natural 19th and Early 20th Century Sharpening Stones and Hones" from TATHS confirms that Charnley Forest is the most likely.
jimi43":me1ges5r said:
One thing that has come to my mind though Dave...the Charnley I have will form a slurry very easily with water...yours, being contaminated with oil ( :mrgreen: ) may not though. You need to rub another stone against it to do this although a finger does it with mine very easily. The black Arkansas does not do this so easily...
Most interesting, thank you.

Jim, any chance chance you could elaborate on that last part please?
 

jimi43

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DTR":29u8wg4m said:
bugbear":29u8wg4m said:
I don't think it could be a black Arkansas (with greenish hue...). Both colour and texture are quite different. A brief confirmatory glance at "Natural 19th and Early 20th Century Sharpening Stones and Hones" from TATHS confirms that Charnley Forest is the most likely.
jimi43":29u8wg4m said:
One thing that has come to my mind though Dave...the Charnley I have will form a slurry very easily with water...yours, being contaminated with oil ( :mrgreen: ) may not though. You need to rub another stone against it to do this although a finger does it with mine very easily. The black Arkansas does not do this so easily...
Most interesting, thank you.

Jim, any chance chance you could elaborate on that last part please?
Certainly Dave.

Some hones/stones are soft in that the layer of sedimentary rock that contains the abrasive crystals (say garnets for instance) will create a slurry when abraded with a similar material....or indeed...when wiped with the tool edge.

This slurry releases the cutting crystals to allow them to cut the steel more readily. There is some interesting information on the Ardennes Coticule website (CLICK CLICK)

Other stones have the cutting crystals firmly embedded in the surrounding rock and are very hard. They act like diamond plates in that the edge is abraded and sharpened by the cutting crystals which stay where they are.

Hope this helps

Jim
 

DTR

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I think I get it Jim... so unlike some other stones, a slurry has to be worked up first using another stone, before sharpening? If I've got that right, what would a suitable "other" stone?
 

jimi43

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DTR":2lx7s3jo said:
I think I get it Jim... so unlike some other stones, a slurry has to be worked up first using another stone, before sharpening? If I've got that right, what would a suitable "other" stone?
Hi Dave

You don't have to use a "slurry stone" but it is usual to create a slurry this way...most full stone retailers provide a slurry stone as an option. It is a small piece of the same stone.

THIS VIDEO best demonstrates the process.

It is not absolutely necessary...indeed...on the Charnley Forest hone that I have...the slurry is created by the simple movement of the edge over the stone and rapidly produces a very fine slurry which improves the speed of cutting.

I don't use these stones with oil so I don't know how they would perform...perhaps someone else can answer that question....but I doubt if the process would vary that much. Generally, oil is used as a lubricant on harder stones where the "grit" is embedded in the rock...the oil washes away all the debris...

By the sound of it...the stone that you have, if it catches on cloth...is relatively course and the crystals are embedded in the substrate rock...

It's difficult to guess what the stone is from this description...

Slates are fairly easy to identify because they look like and feel like roof slates.

I would see how it cuts first...to determine how course or fine a grit it actually is and how fast it cuts the steel...

Identification is useful but at the end of the day, if it cuts a fine edge quickly...that is what you want to do with it...whatever it's called! :wink:

Jimi
 

Jacob

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DTR":aeconksm said:
I think I get it Jim... so unlike some other stones, a slurry has to be worked up first using another stone, before sharpening? ........
Of course not. Just whack it on and hone away. Oil or water. Oil is cleaner and doesn't rust things.
 

DTR

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jimi43":1dqwz03c said:
You don't have to use a "slurry stone" but it is usual to create a slurry this way...most full stone retailers provide a slurry stone as an option. It is a small piece of the same stone.

....

It is not absolutely necessary...indeed...on the Charnley Forest hone that I have...the slurry is created by the simple movement of the edge over the stone and rapidly produces a very fine slurry which improves the speed of cutting.

.....

By the sound of it...the stone that you have, if it catches on cloth...is relatively course and the crystals are embedded in the substrate rock
Ok, thanks for the info. I'll try to find another chunk of charnley, the stone itself came from a boot sale. Of course I've tried honing a tool in the normal fashion but it does nothing; no slurry, no effect on the tool. It just pushes the oil around.

This wasn't the stone that catches on the cloth btw, that was a coarse India. This stone is very smooth to the touch.
 

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