Not a Plumber so WTF is going on

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As I said earlier Even if the pipe is blocked the boiler should be empty for a short time before it fills up, again.
by removing the plug you have drained the boiler (and cleaned the trap) but if the condensate pipe is blocked by ice or debris away from the boiler it would just fill up the boiler again and send the boiler back into lockout, so it's a good chance that the pipe is blocked. Ideally you could do to follow the pipe to see where it goes to but it sounds like ice is your problem.
 
Had this happen a few years ago.
Condensate drain emerged from house and into a gutter downpipe. I used a garage fan heater, made up an improvised funnel to direct the hot air into the shoe at the bottom of the downpipe and blocked off at the gutter level( a sock).
The warm air permeated up the downpipe and into the condensate pipe thawing out all the ice.
Solution adopted was to reroute a heating pipe to run along side the condensate pipe whilst it was still in the property, lagged both together. It just heats the the condensate enough and keeps it warmer for it to run into the main downpipe without the chance of freezing in the smaller pipe.No problems since.
 
This will not help droog but I had an oil boiler which would stop working when freezing. Service engineer could not fix it, he even came out one morning when it was not working. Oil Tank drain was well below outlet, sample from drain completely clear. Pre internet and I was told that the fuel does not freeze, the fuel waxes, the fuel freezes, depending on who I spoke to. Main difficulty in fault finding was that in the morning it would not fire up, I would go to work and when I came home boiler would be working.

In the end I traced it to the outside filter immediately after the tank outlet. The bowl had water trapped in it which froze. The source of the water was the interesting point, there was a vertical clear plastic pipe to measure the fuel level in the tank. The plastic top had come off letting rain drops in. Cleaned the filter, put a small glass jar over the top and no more problems.
 
may have to just leave for now and use the woodstove once I can get some more logs dropped off. It is all comming out in the next few months when the kitchen and floors are totally redone. So will put in a new up to date combi boiler in then. until then will persevere with woodstove and kettle
 
Make sure when they fit your new boiler they keep all the condensate pipe internally if possible and if that's not possible do it right externally. You can get condensate trace heaters to fit along the external pipe under lagging. Most cases you don't know there is a potential problem until later in the year when it freezes up.
 
........... So will put in a new up to date combi boiler in then. until then will persevere with woodstove and kettle

I strongly urge you to have the plumbers install a common brand of combination boiler, even if more costly, that support and parts are readily available for. My place was built in 2016 and they put in a unit that isn't common so parts have to come from California, support takes hours to get ahold of meanwhile your plumber is standing by, and they do not have the manuals online. Problems cost and we have had our share.

Yesterday, like you, when we got up there was no hot water. It was close to -30ºC with wind chills below -40ºC during the night. The error code pointed to some kind of water flow problem so I took the front cover off and carefully played a heat gun on it and that got the boiler to work for the heat side to my shop. The hot water didn't work so had to keep the door to the utility room open and either the boiler working, thawed it by conduction, or the warmer room thawed it out. The plumber never heard from the customer support at all. The combustion air comes in through a 3"/75mm PVC pipe to one side of the unit and the inlet to the natural gas mixing unit is a foot/300mm away on the other side of the unit. That cold air froze up something in there. From now on when it is this cold the utility room door will be open and the front of the boiler taken off to keep the guts from freezing up. For some reason plumbing and heating issues never occur in the summer. :unsure:

I'll add that the house uses double wall construction with a foot/300mm of insulation so nothing is sitting against cold walls.

Pete
 
Everyone has their favourite , but if you do go for a new boiler a Main /Baxi is worth looking at. Pay for the premium version and you get a longer warranty , make sure its fitted with a magnetic filter, water conditioner ( does nothing really) and run the condensate drain internally if at possible ( as previously recommended). Make sure you get inhibitor in the system. I’ve had 6 fitted over last 3 years ( i’m a landlord and they are replacing 18-20 year old Aristons that have done their bit and get replaced as soon as they have any issues). I get the basic boiler as the extra 2 year warranty is pointless if they go wrong that quickly. But touch wood only problem with the six has been a leaky pressure guage , sent to my plumber under warranty and they paid his charge to fit it.
They also do heat only boilers or system if you want.
 
If you want a system to last then forget a combi boiler and fit an unvented system with system boiler and hot water storage cylinder with proper zoning. A combi boiler is more complex and goes through much higher thermal shock on a regular basis, the system boiler does not have to suddenly wake up from cold to deliver hot water on demand and will give you a decent power shower. I loved the old Baxi's with a pilot light, not so keen when they went to electronic ignition and now in their current guise as condensing boilers I prefer Valiant / Worcester Bosch and Alpha. Always run corrosion inhibitor and a magnetic filter, so many modern radiators are poor quality and cheap steel that they corrode easier or use cast iron radiators which work well with condensing boilers and I think add character compared to pressed steel. Would recomend OSO for a sealed H/W cylinder, very clean lines without a mass of visible pipework .
 
Am I right in thinking that house insurance is still suspicious of sealed HW tanks and require an annual inspection, with the corresponding annual cost?
Rob
 
To clear one point of confusion. All modern boilers are 'condensing boilers', which means that the 'products of combustion' ('fumes') which consist of water vapour and carbon dioxide, pass through a secondary heat exchanger to extract maximum heat. Traditional (obsolete) gas central heating boilers were about 60 - 65% efficient, but also had a permanent pilot light running 24/7/365. Most condensing boilers (except in apartment blocks) are on traditional open vent central heating systems, with an airing cupboard, hot water tank and a cold water feed tank and expansion tank in the loft.

Some condensing boilers are also 'Combi' boilers, which originally were meant for use in apartments where there is nowhere to fit a feed tank or expansion tank. There is no hot water storage tank either. The system is sealed and has a pressure vessel inside the boiler with water on one side if a diaphragm and air on the other. When commissioned, a bypass valve is turned on which pressurises the sealed system to 1.5 - 2 Bar - not much about the 1 Bar or so (about 27Ft) than in an open vented system with a tank, so no dramas.

One problem with combi boilers is that minute leaks on radiator valves which may not be noticeable, will cause the pressure in the system to drop over time to a level which causes the boiler to shut off. There's a dial on the boiler which shows what the pressure should be and what it actually is. If it's too low, there is a bypass valve on two flexible pipes covered with stainless steel mesh. To re-pressurise the system, the valve needs opening while watching he dial till the pointer reaches the correct pressure, then the bypass valve should be turned off. The User's instruction explain how to do that. Some boilers need a little key to operate the valve, which often get lost but can be obtained.

Combi boilers don't have a hot water storage cylinder and only heat water when a tap is turned on. They hot water temperature is constant winter and summer, but the flow rate in winter when the incoming water is much colder, is slowed down to keep the outlet temperature constant. Pitifully slow if you like a bath, but acceptable if you are happy just with a shower.

If a condensing boiler fails when the outside temperature is below zero, it will almost certainly be due to the condensate drain pipe having frozen up. Most are only 22 mm diameter plastic pipe so will soon freeze up with a constant trickle of warm condensate running through.

I spent my whole career (40 years) with British Gas and in Sept 2010, Gordon Brown offered grants of £400 to householders who replaced old conventional boilers with condensing ones. To get the grant, I had to suffer the indignity of watching inept installers doing their best to incompetently install the new boiler. Within couple of days the boiler kept shutting off. Looking into it, I noted that the condensate drain was sloping the wrong way and teed into the sink water pipe as was the washing machine. This meant that water from the washing machine and sink backed up the condensate pipe and shut the boiler off. I altered the slope of the condensate pipe and all was well till winter. Outside the house there 35mm diam plastic sink waste was exposed for 600mm. The steady flow of warm condensate into the waste pipe quickly froze until the waste pipe blocked solid with ice. I therefore insulated the sink waste and boxed it in. No problems since.

This nonsense is what happens when traditional craft apprenticeships and City & Guild exams are replaced with NVQ -' Not Very Qualified'. Little skill, little experience and o pride in the job at all.

The first pic shows the condensate drain sloping the wrong way towards the boiler. The second after I'd corrected it by sloping it at about 40 degrees. Not the verdi gris (green) corrosion on the pipework installed fifteen years previously when Persimmon built the house. That's from the 'self-cleaning flux' used by the 'plumbers' - flux for those who are too lazy to clean copper pipe and fittings, hen too lazy to clean the flux off after the joint had been soldered. I was taught to be clean at my mother's knee. They should be' doing time' - not 'doing plumbing'.

Hope that might clear up a few points.
 

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helps it being a little less confusing thanks

It still doesnt want to work but waiting for a friend of a friend to pop round 🤫 (Who is a gas enngineer) so hopefull will get it up and running for the next wee while. I'm sure the condensate trap is still full of krap and maybe some of the drain pipe. I hope he is able to sort it as I am too scared to open it all up and take it out.

All the plumbing in this place is a mystery so as said if i can get it going until the floor work is started again, I will then look at replacing the whole system with more a efficient system that hopefully gets rid of the massive immersion tank in the hall cubboard as well. We have never had great pressure and have an electric shower that heats up itself, just not nice getting out into a room with fractals on the inside of double glazing
 
Hi Droogs
I did not want to hijack your thread but I also have a question about gas boilers and I am hopeful with your gas engineer friend's input you may have your problem sorted.
Can anyone tell me of a good sensible forum where I can ask a question about a 'Waterford Stanley Super Star gas boiler/range combo'.
I don't have any present problems (intake of breath and fingers crossed) on my 25yr old ++ boiler but I am trying to find out about practical servicing of the range and especially the gas burner setup.
The range/cooker is v similar in style to an Aga range cooker/boiler has an Esse burner unit.
It provides central heating, hot water and cooking facilities.
I cannot find any help on Youtube.
Any help (in telling me where to go !!) would be welcome.
 
np ask away and hopefully one of our learned gents will be able to help
 

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