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No table saw, am I missing out?

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Daniel2

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I thought it was an improved version of the crack-pot American design. Could be wrong. Save money and be even safer: use 2 push sticks.
TS is brilliant (as spelled out by Sideways above). Even better with a long sliding table.
Well, having just wasted 6 minutes of my life, I can confirm that both the blade and the sawstop
are considered single use disposable. Also, when working high moisture content timber, the system needs
to be overridden.
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I'll stay with my pushsticks and some common sense, methinks.
 
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danst96

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I watched a review where this guy got a Laguna over a Sawstop, he got essentially the same quality of saw with the same/more features bar the stop mechanism for almost 3 times less the cost. His argument was that the occurrence of people actually cutting themselves with a TS is very low and if you have other safety features in place such as your blade guard then the cost vs safety feature isnt even an argument anymore.

I personally think the Sawstop tech is clever and the saw by itself without that safety feature is apparently an extremely good saw (im talking about the US Sawstop saws not the overpriced Festool jobsite thing) but as the reviewer said, if you use your head and blade guard, it becomes a redundant feature you are overpaying for.
 

Jameshow

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I find the table saw is the last tool I use if I can help it.

But then it's the one tool that does the job of ripping down boards etc without hours of sawing.

If you use planed timber you can get by without one. However if you start with rough saw boards it's invaluable.

Ps get a decent one the cheap ones are just that cheap and put you off using them.

Cheers James
 

Cabinetman

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I make bespoke furniture for a living and don’t have a track saw my circular saw is used maybe once every two or three years and I don’t have a mitre saw but have considered buying one. Don’t miss any of them really I have a really good Sedgwick cast-iron table saw with a crosscut table and a band saw, there isn’t anything I haven’t been able to make.
My tablesaw is the last item I would get rid of. Horses for courses I suppose. Ian
 

Spectric

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That safety technology has been around for some time, it's not new but maybe for Festool and could actually contribute to lower safety standards because it could change your mindset and you may take chances you would not have done before. A safer approach is to just accept that machinery can be dangerous and You are responsible for keeping your fingers not the machine.

I'm sure the Festool product is a good one as I'm not sure they make many lemons.
They may not make lemons but they certainly make expensive tools that may have a few extra bells and whistles but not at a quality level that jumps out. In fact without competition a product will not evolve and will just stagnate, why spend money if it sells anyway and you own the market for that product.
 

Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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I suspect I can answer this myself but I have a tracksaw, band saw, mitresaw and router and a good selection of hand tools. What in the UK am I missing out on by not having a tablesaw? I am the victim of having read too many US posts. If I was to get one it would be the festool sawstop but I am struggling to find a justification!

Applications are general construction, cupboards, raised panelling etc.

Thanks in advance!
An answer to a question like this is always going to depend on what one makes and what one uses, solid wood or sheet goods.

I do not build with manufactured sheets, only solid wood. If I could only have one major machine in the workshop, it would be a table saw. In fact, this was the case for about 25 years. Contractor table saw and hand planes.

As Jacob mentioned, a sliding tablesaw is the one to aim for. I have a Hammer K3 and it it nothing short of amazing. It was purchased rather than a SawStop. Similar price, but the K3 is head-and-shoulders above the SS - lots of new techniques to use, and they are sublime when you realise what it can do.

The K3 can work as a traditional cabinet saw, while the slider excels at more than crosscutting ..



With router table in the outfeed ...



Parallel guide on slider enables glue-ready jointing, narrow rips, and tapering ..,



Regards from Perth

Derek
 

Jacob

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As Derek says - very versatile. I was surprised at what it could do e.g. 6ft long sliding table means you can rip a 12ft timber accurately and easily. Or at the other extreme make little boxes with 3mm T&G joint, over the top of the saw.
Also very precise and with the right blade a very clean cut.
Works with the bandsaw e.g. a deep rip cut say 9" with two 3" passes over the TS , then take out the 3" middle with the BS
 

TRITON

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I'm not intending to belittle any safety feature.
But, if I understand correctly, the Sawstop functions as a total
destruct mechanism. When it is tripped, it trashes itself and the sawblade,
both of which then need to be binned and replaced. It is not resettable.
It seems a rather dramatic way of doing things to me :unsure:
That said, there arent any other safety features. We dont have them on moulders of bandsaws or planers or such. Sawbench causes many injuries, many of which lead to a lifetime of disability, so compare it against the cost of a new blade and the unit itself its nothing.
Perhaps in the future the mechanism of the saw itself would incorporate a system that drops the blade, but nothing there as yet so best go with something proven to work and save from horrific injury.

Cars have crumple zones, so even a small accident with write off the entire car. Would you rather we have those or smash face first into the dashboard , or have ribs and collarbone crushed.

I dont think we can compare any small cost against the cost of serious injury. Sawstop to me(dont have one unfortunately) is the greatest innovation to hit the woodworking industry. They should be mandatory in education and workplace environments.
 

Jacob

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That said, there arent any other safety features. We dont have them on moulders of bandsaws or planers or such. ......
Automatic and/or foot brakes are quite common. Then covers such as crown guards.
The ultimate safety device is of course a pair of push sticks, which reduce risk (and cost) close to zero.
The weak point of the saw stop, besides the cost, is that it can be switched off, or fail, which I think turns it into a dangerous trap for the unwary, simple-minded or inexperienced.
 

TRITON

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Indeed Jacob, though foot brakes are only for slowing/stopping the blades after use, i wouldnt call them a safety feature though, rather something to speed up production times.

Push sticks. I'm a purveyor of the use of them for sure. Cant injure yourself if your hands are nowhere near the dangerous bits.
" The weak point of the saw stop, besides the cost, is that it can be switched off, or fail "
Wasn't aware they can be switched off, but fail ?? Can you back up such a claim, or is it only hypothetical thinking.
 

danst96

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Automatic and/or foot brakes are quite common. Then covers such as crown guards.
The ultimate safety device is of course a pair of push sticks, which reduce risk (and cost) close to zero.
The weak point of the saw stop, besides the cost, is that it can be switched off, or fail, which I think turns it into a dangerous trap for the unwary, simple-minded or inexperienced.
theres the additional cost of new underwear too when it goes off unexpectedly when cutting damp wood.
 

Jacob

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Indeed Jacob, though foot brakes are only for slowing/stopping the blades after use, i wouldnt call them a safety feature though, rather something to speed up production times.
.....
They are safer - accidents happen when people wrongly think a blade has stopped, especially in noisy shops
 
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Cabinetman

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Daniel 2 said further up the post thread said that it should be turned off if using high moisture content timber which was something I’ve often wondered about as a wet bit of wood could be transmitting that Veryfine signal between the wood and the saw. Forget to turn it off and it’s an expensive fix Ian
 

DBT85

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Indeed Jacob, though foot brakes are only for slowing/stopping the blades after use, i wouldnt call them a safety feature though, rather something to speed up production times.

Push sticks. I'm a purveyor of the use of them for sure. Cant injure yourself if your hands are nowhere near the dangerous bits.
" The weak point of the saw stop, besides the cost, is that it can be switched off, or fail "
Wasn't aware they can be switched off, but fail ?? Can you back up such a claim, or is it only hypothetical thinking.
You can disable it in case you are cutting wood that's dripping or say some aluminium. If I recall correctly the system self tests every time it's started.
 

Daniel2

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You can disable it in case you are cutting wood that's dripping or say some aluminium. If I recall correctly the system self tests every time it's started.
Does this self test go the whole hog, each time it's started ?
If it does, that'll bring a whole new dimension to what was
already an expensive hobby.
Not much sawing would get done, either. 😂 😂 :unsure:
:devilish:
 

Cabinetman

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It can self test as much as it wants to, but I bet it still won’t know the difference between wet wood aluminium or your finger.
 

D_W

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how wet does wood have to be to set it off?

I never considered a sawstop as I was thinking of getting away from power tools or going whole hog into more complicated and more space. I went the other way, but someone posed a situation where sawstop makes a lot of sense. Small shops that still use a TS intermittently, and schools.

Schools have been cutting things like drafting, design and woodworking here for a very long time, but my local suburban district still has those.

No clue about for-pay shops that use a tablesaw as I recall a friend looking at a slider 13 years ago and even then, the notion was that sliders were an antique way to do something that most shops more than 2 men do with a CNC. I worked in a cabinet factory with 500 employees in it and there was no table saw in it, but there was one giant radial arm saw and a huge bandsaw for cutting bits and bobs.

I've received a swift kickback early on from a powermatic 66 (luckily no permanent damage, but I had a lump under the skin for months). Same with the friend who owned the saw - he got one earlier on in his hobby. No interest in operating a saw without at least a splitter on it at this point.
 

Doug71

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Sawstop type technology is a good thing, hopefully in the future all machines will have it. The cost of a new blade and cartridge alone would be enough to stop me putting my fingers anywhere near the blade (I think you get a free replacement cartridge if you can prove it saved a finger?).

Regarding if you need a table saw or not I think what I am getting from this thread is that you can manage without one but once you have used a good one you wouldn't be without it.

As Derek says if you have the space a professional sliding panel saw is a pleasure to use, I was after a 1.2m slider as that is all I thought I could fit in but I ended up with a 1.8m, now I would happily squeeze in a 2.4m as they are so useful!
 

Nick Laguna UK

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Perhaps in the future the mechanism of the saw itself would incorporate a system that drops the blade, but nothing there as yet so best go with something proven to work and save from horrific injury.
Bosch almost launched the ReaXX - my understanding is was prevented by SawStop for a patent breach - Don't quote me on that

ReaXX - I saw it maybe 4 years ago at a trade fair but then it just vanished - it didn't wreck the blade.

 

Doug71

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Perhaps in the future the mechanism of the saw itself would incorporate a system that drops the blade, but nothing there as yet so best go with something proven to work and save from horrific injury.
Felders version just drops the blade below the table without damaging it and is easily reset.

This guy tests it out in front of his mates for a bet while having a few beers after an exhibition (I'm guessing)! 😎


 

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