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They are of course two different things:
  • unemployment is the state of not having a (paying) job
  • poverty is being unable to meet basic needs including food, clothing and shelter
I strongly suspect there is a material correlation between unemployment and poverty.

Defining poverty in relative terms means a part of any population will be in poverty. In a population comprising millionaires and billionaires - relative poverty would happily define millionaires as needy - clearly daft.

Those living in poverty in the UK are (mostly) generally fed, housed, educated, enjoy health care, clean water, etc. They enjoy a living standard that would be regarded as aspirational in some parts of the world.

IMHO relative poverty is no more useful a definition than absolute poverty in defining real needs - more sense and less dogma needs to be applied.
The UK poverty line:

Using the current definition of poverty, it's facile for anyone to feel it can be eliminated, and it's far broader than most might imagine.

Households are considered to be below the UK poverty line if their income is below 60% of the median household income after housing costs (‘AHC’) for that year. The relative poverty threshold for a couple with no children was £327/week in 2022/23 AHC. A single person with no children is in poverty if they earn £190/week or less AHC

Absolute Poverty – number of people affected in the UK

Absolute poverty measures the number and proportion of individuals who have household incomes 60% below the median average in 2010/11, adjusted for inflation. It is used to look at how changes in income for the lowest income households compare to changes in the cost of living.

The median income threshold is the mid-point income in the UK population.

It means that half the population in the UK are earning the median income or less, and the other half earn that income or more. The median household income in the UK it's £578 per week, before housing costs are deducted from that income (BHC), and £498 per week, after housing costs were deducted (AHC).

60% of that median income is £347/week BHC and £299/week AHC. Therefore, when discussing Absolute Poverty BHC, the analysis represents the number and proportion of people from households earning £347 per week or less. When discussing Absolute Poverty AHC, the analysis represents people from households earning £299 per week or less.

On these definitions in 2022/23, 9.47m million people (14% of the UK) were living in absolute poverty before housing costs were deducted (BHC). Almost 12 million people (18% of the UK) were living in absolute poverty after housing costs were deducted (AHC).

The inescapable fact is that too high a proportion of the population have lost the work ethic, and whereas welfare benefit is meant to be a safety net to catch people when they fall, for too many, it's become a spider's web in which they get entangled, and becomes a subsistence level lifestyle choice getting by on a raft of benefits. 'If I got a job I'd lose my benefits, so I'd be working all week for just a few pounds more". (The 'non-Working Class?').

The UK is the only G7 country where employment is not back to pre-pandemic levels. The welfare bill is soaring - it's expected to top £300 Billion by the end of the year. Starmer says: 'those with the broadest shoulders should bear the load'. On any definition of 'broad shoulders', that would surely not include pensioners and the cancelling of the winter fuel allowance. How much will that shave off the the £300 billion welfare bill? £1.4 Billion - just 0.46%. (Don't train drivers have broad shoulders?)

When they sprung the cancellation of the winter fuel allowance after the election, the Labour Party keep repeating that they had no choice because no-one told them about the £22 billion 'black hole', but the Lab committed itself to protecting the non-means tested winter fuel allowance in every one of its manifestos in 2010, 2015, 2017, and 2019. It was only in 2024 that is was quietly omitted so it seems clear to me that it was their intention all along but they kept quiet about it as they knew it wouldn't have been a vote winner, and had the outcry that's now ensued occurred before the election, they wouldn't now be in power. I had high hopes when Labour was elected, but in just a few short weeks, I think Starmer has blown it. Can't afford winter fuel payments, but can afford huge inflation busting pay rises to appease the unions. - He'll now be in hock to the TUC.

And before anyone makes subjective judgements, yes, I do know what real poverty looks like - I was born into it in 1939, and coped with it well, but I lifted myself out of it. In all my working life I only had six weeks off work in one stretch in 1985 to recover from a major back operation. Until I became a pensioner I never had a penny in welfare benefit, and apart from a mortgage, never went into debt. I'm not crowing about that - I think most of my generation could say the same.
 
In no small part due to the govt flogging off state-owned British industry from 1979 on. Much of which is now owned abroad.
I was totally against the sell-off of the UK's utilities but when they are grossly overmanned and impossible to restructure because of being controlled by Soviet funded corrupt left wing union bosses who were effectively holding the country to ransom, the only solution was for the government to get the utilities out of the hands of the unions.

It worked by selling them off but the utilities should never been allowed to fall into the hands of foreign ownership...they should have been owned by UK only companies.
It would have been even better not to have sold them off in the first place but we are where we are because of the backward thinking unions and I can see union leaders like Lynch raising their ugly heads again and causing yet more mayhem in the near future.
 
All poverty is relative to the cost of things in any given country. Those who are poor in a Third World Country struggle at a threshold of income much lower than in the affluent West. And to an outsider, the streets here, can seem to be "paved with gold".

The basic right of any citizen, is that they should have a roof over their head, be clothed, and have sufficient food to eat. The cost of this will obviously be far higher in affluent countries. From this simple fact alone poverty is obviously going to be relative.

For all of us "Old Gits" who look back at our "impoverished" past would do well to remind ourselves that what we experienced was close to being the norm for the time. What has happened over the intervening years is that we have access to more and more stuff and the relative cost of things has changed remarkably. The luxury goods of my childhood, that were out of reach can now be purchased for less than ones grocery bill for the week. Therefore, dismissing someone being interviewed on TV about using "foodbanks". because they are speaking from a nicely furnished room is to miss the point. They can easily have nice curtains, but still not have enough money for groceries.
 
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It's naive. Will result in private landlords reducing housing stock to rent
What, will they demolish their housing stock or leave it empty? I doubt it.
and putting more pressure on the state sector.
State sector is where it should be. The private sector has failed miserably to provide homes.
...... Labour tends to have oilicies that have unforeseen consequences.
Unlike the unwelcome consequences of tory policies often glaringly obvious from the start, such as brexit, or underfunding public services "to make them more efficient"?
 
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I was totally against the sell-off of the UK's utilities but when they are grossly overmanned and impossible to restructure because of being controlled by Soviet funded corrupt left wing union bosses who were effectively holding the country to ransom, the only solution was for the government to get the utilities out of the hands of the unions.

It worked by selling them off but the utilities should never been allowed to fall into the hands of foreign ownership...they should have been owned by UK only companies.
It would have been even better not to have sold them off in the first place but we are where we are because of the backward thinking unions and I can see union leaders like Lynch raising their ugly heads again and causing yet more mayhem in the near future.
Loudly shouting rubbish about "Soviet funded corrupt left wing union bosses who were effectively holding the country to ransom" doesn't make it true.
 
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I see the exodus has started...


Britain’s richest plumber Charlie Mullins has put his £12m London penthouse up for sale as he prepares to flee the UK to avoid a Labour tax raid.
The Pimlico Plumbers founder, who bought the luxury flat with his windfall from the £145m sale of his business in 2021, said he is ready to have “no assets in the UK whatsoever”.
Mr Mullins has hired an agent to find a buyer for his apartment – which neighbours a property owned by Tom Jones and has its own bar – as he looks to instead pour his cash into Spain and Dubai.
He said: “I’ll have no investments here, no bank account here. It’s all in the process now. I think my last tax bill is January and that’s me done.”


He is not alone.
 
I see the exodus has started...


Britain’s richest plumber Charlie Mullins has put his £12m London penthouse up for sale as he prepares to flee the UK to avoid a Labour tax raid.
The Pimlico Plumbers founder, who bought the luxury flat with his windfall from the £145m sale of his business in 2021, said he is ready to have “no assets in the UK whatsoever”.
Mr Mullins has hired an agent to find a buyer for his apartment – which neighbours a property owned by Tom Jones and has its own bar – as he looks to instead pour his cash into Spain and Dubai.
He said: “I’ll have no investments here, no bank account here. It’s all in the process now. I think my last tax bill is January and that’s me done.”


He is not alone.
Good for him. Let all the ultra rich who don't want to pay their taxes buzz off abroad. I really don't believe it'll make much difference to anything in the long run.
If they all abscond, then I guess there won't be a lot of prospective buyers!
 
I see the exodus has started...


Britain’s richest plumber Charlie Mullins has put his £12m London penthouse up for sale as he prepares to flee the UK to avoid a Labour tax raid.
The Pimlico Plumbers founder, who bought the luxury flat with his windfall from the £145m sale of his business in 2021, said he is ready to have “no assets in the UK whatsoever”.
Mr Mullins has hired an agent to find a buyer for his apartment – which neighbours a property owned by Tom Jones and has its own bar – as he looks to instead pour his cash into Spain and Dubai.
He said: “I’ll have no investments here, no bank account here. It’s all in the process now. I think my last tax bill is January and that’s me done.”


He is not alone.
Good riddance I say!
 
I see the exodus has started...


Britain’s richest plumber Charlie Mullins has put his £12m London penthouse up for sale as he prepares to flee the UK to avoid a Labour tax raid.
The Pimlico Plumbers founder, who bought the luxury flat with his windfall from the £145m sale of his business in 2021, said he is ready to have “no assets in the UK whatsoever”.
Mr Mullins has hired an agent to find a buyer for his apartment – which neighbours a property owned by Tom Jones and has its own bar – as he looks to instead pour his cash into Spain and Dubai.
He said: “I’ll have no investments here, no bank account here. It’s all in the process now. I think my last tax bill is January and that’s me done.”


He is not alone.
Hardly an exodus. A self-made plumber - with a bar in his flat, no less - decides to move abroad.
 
Hardly an exodus. A self-made plumber - with a bar in his flat, no less - decides to

Key Point from The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report

LONDON — A record number of millionaires is expected to leave the United Kingdom this year, according to new research, with this year’s general election expected to further exacerbate the exodus.

The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report indicates that Britain will experience a net loss of 9,500 high-net-worth individuals in 2024 — more than double last year’s figure of 4,200 (which in itself was a record-high figure).

The U.K. came second to only China in Henley’s ranking, with the eastern Asian giant expected to see net outflows of 15,200 millionaires in 2024
 
Key Point from The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report

LONDON — A record number of millionaires is expected to leave the United Kingdom this year, according to new research, with this year’s general election expected to further exacerbate the exodus.

The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report indicates that Britain will experience a net loss of 9,500 high-net-worth individuals in 2024 — more than double last year’s figure of 4,200 (which in itself was a record-high figure).

The U.K. came second to only China in Henley’s ranking, with the eastern Asian giant expected to see net outflows of 15,200 millionaires in 2024
Good riddance! It's a good job they can't take much of their wealth with them - land, property, UK businesses etc.
 
Hardly an exodus. A self-made plumber - with a bar in his flat, no less - decides to move abroad.
Snigger and belittle all you like. Let's see where we are in six months time, eh ?
 
Good for him. Let all the ultra rich who don't want to pay their taxes buzz off abroad. I really don't believe it'll make much difference to anything in the long run.
If they all abscond, then I guess there won't be a lot of prospective buyers!
Nothing like sour grapes, eh, John? How do you know he hasn't paid his taxes ? He probably has. Just doesn't want to get fleeced by a vindictive Govt who need money to pay the train drivers and fund GB Energy. Still waiting to hear what GB Energy is all about.
 
... Labour tends to have oilicies that have unforeseen consequences.
Spot on. Like children's education being wrecked because their parents can't afford the VAT uplift of private schooling...another Labour vindictive act. I see Buckinghamshire are saying that all the 'good' state schools are full. As are most of the others.
 
Key Point from The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report

LONDON — A record number of millionaires is expected to leave the United Kingdom this year, according to new research, with this year’s general election expected to further exacerbate the exodus.

The Henley Private Wealth Migration Report indicates that Britain will experience a net loss of 9,500 high-net-worth individuals in 2024 — more than double last year’s figure of 4,200 (which in itself was a record-high figure).

The U.K. came second to only China in Henley’s ranking, with the eastern Asian giant expected to see net outflows of 15,200 millionaires in 2024
Looking at some of the replies, it would appear that some folk don't understand the phrase "No assets in the UK whatsoever". For those here struggling to understand what assets mean....

land, property, UK businesses etc
 
Nothing like sour grapes, eh, John? How do you know he hasn't paid his taxes ? He probably has. Just doesn't want to get fleeced by a vindictive Govt who need money to pay the train drivers and fund GB Energy. Still waiting to hear what GB Energy is all about.
Nothing to do with sour grapes, woodie, unless I totally misunderstood Aesop, I just don't believe that many of the super rich contribute much to society.
And I never said that he hadn't paid his taxes.
 
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