How many watched this documentary and had to question whether it was factual or the cast were actors and actresses? How could this be reality, the people were something else that is hard to describe and using a common excuse of alcohol for their absolute ridiculous behavior and then the police, it seems to them that it is all just a game and they were just to immature to be police. This was obviously known to the drunken morons who played them to the full and is it now a case of our police force becoming a soft touch and playing social workers. If this is typical then it is clear to see how we are losing some areas to crime and antisocial behavior, what they needed in brighton was simply a water cannon to disperse the drunken morons and start to give them a clear message that their behavior is not acceptable.
Night coppers
- Thread starter Spectric
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Argus
Established Member
I thank that it's on our recorded list...... always watch commercial stuff later to iron-out the inane adverts.
Those fly-on-the wall cop-operas are always heavily sanitised and inclined to produce a lasting impression.
Along with a lot of other 'factual' stuff on British TV there's a lasting inclination to 'Nudge' influence.
Those fly-on-the wall cop-operas are always heavily sanitised and inclined to produce a lasting impression.
Along with a lot of other 'factual' stuff on British TV there's a lasting inclination to 'Nudge' influence.
Lazurus
Established Member
I think most of these Cop shows are edited to be a recruitment film for them.
They should rename the police to the snowflake brigade, they are like a lot of wet lettuce, in reality if some arsssshooole is being aggressive and lashing out pretending to be some hard man then a few wacks with a baton will solve the issue much faster than having a wrestling match on the floor with them. You have to be careful because you don't want to put extra strain on the ambulance service or the NHS but deliver enough so that they feel it for the next few days.
As a former Deputy Sheriff in a rural US county, the temptation is sometimes great to revert to the old ways of on-the-spot attitude adjustment. However, the extensive scenario training at the academy and the use of force continuum dictate otherwise. I used the "ask, tell, show" method with great success. The "ask" and "tell" steps worked most of the time. The "show" step always worked for the remaining times, but never ended well for the other person. The "show" step sometimes included a trip to A&E before ending at the jail, with at least one or two charges added to the original offense.
I don't watch the cop shows because some of the scenes are staged for dramatic effect. Most of the time, in my experience, rural policing is boring. This boredom is possible when the general public has respect (not fear) for law enforcement and know we are out there somewhere, or are seen driving through their communities as part of the physical presence. I don't have (or want) any experience with big city policing and am content to leave that to the younger generation.
clogs
just can't decide
In the old days I’ve had a wack around the head by the local Bobby who knew everybody….didn't do me any harm….
no respect at all for the modern version…
shame is they spend a lot of time and resources catching said a'hole then the magistrate let’s em off….
much prefer the US idea…lock em up…
plus drunken, drugged behaviour mens if the emergency services are called there should be a £5,000 fine for each service….
plus a total ban on drinking n driving will help everyone…
sorry rant over…
no respect at all for the modern version…
shame is they spend a lot of time and resources catching said a'hole then the magistrate let’s em off….
much prefer the US idea…lock em up…
plus drunken, drugged behaviour mens if the emergency services are called there should be a £5,000 fine for each service….
plus a total ban on drinking n driving will help everyone…
sorry rant over…
Our police force has worked very hard to alienate itself from the public. Yes its nice to have them, but they spend more time looking for uninsured cars that solving burglaries. You can have someone trying to smash down your door and phone 999 and no police will turn up.
It seems sometimes they're working retrospectively, in that they're allowing a crime to take place, then looking to solve it, and when you look at the figures, that isnt happening to justify their numbers or their budgets.
Another pet peeve of mine is we allowed them the taser, and at the time they claimed it would only be used in the direst of circumstances, when the safety of their officers were at stake, but the reality is they are using it to ensure compliance in situations where violence or risk to their officers is not in question. Do this or else. Their use of it is measured int he thousands of incidents, and that figure is doubling year on year.
I firmly believe we should never allow rank and file officers access to firearms, and only special teams trained in that should be used.
There needs to be some link between insurance claims and that areas police force in that the police force pay a percentage of the claims which would add incentive to prevent crime rather than just dishing out numbers for making insurance claims.
I reckon a lot of the police would end up accidently shooting themselves or each other because rather than respect their gun it would be treated like a water pistol.
thetyreman
Established Member
I don't trust TV programmes much anymore in terms of truth/accuracy, take it with a pinch of salt.
flying haggis
Established Member
how the current police force members have any morale left I dont know when having gone to the trouble of chasing, say a car thief, they catch them after the toerag has totalled someone elses pride and joy, then the courts dont come down on the thieves like a ton of bricks and they get a small fine, a driving ban that will be ignored etc. why should the ordinary copper put themselves in danger then get no result.
If any one is caught driving unlicensed, uninsured etc then the penalty should hurt them in the pocket and hard and it should double for each subsequent offence. If they crash a stolen car and damage a police car or a set of lights, railings etc then make them pay to replace or repair in full. Why insurance companies who pay out to the victims of uninsured drivers dont go after the perpetrators for recompense in full I dont know.
i also think that as the drink drive limit is 35 (whatevers) then if you blow 1 over then a 1 month ban and if you blow 20 over then its a 20 month ban etc so the absolutely hammered driver who blows 107 gets a 72 month ie 6 year ban...
rant over...
If any one is caught driving unlicensed, uninsured etc then the penalty should hurt them in the pocket and hard and it should double for each subsequent offence. If they crash a stolen car and damage a police car or a set of lights, railings etc then make them pay to replace or repair in full. Why insurance companies who pay out to the victims of uninsured drivers dont go after the perpetrators for recompense in full I dont know.
i also think that as the drink drive limit is 35 (whatevers) then if you blow 1 over then a 1 month ban and if you blow 20 over then its a 20 month ban etc so the absolutely hammered driver who blows 107 gets a 72 month ie 6 year ban...
rant over...
Lazurus
Established Member
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
It’s the system that needs fixing more than the police. It’s pretty easy to opine about how the police should get tough but when you are outnumbered by a lagered up crowd perhaps not so many would be that brave in their shoes … particularly as you won’t get the benefit of the doubt when the person you have hit claims unreasonable force. We all know how to do everyone else’s job better though don’t we!
I’ll declare an interest as my son is in the police. They aren’t perfect but they do a trying job in difficult conditions. If society wants them to be able to dole out a crack around the ear or act like Judge Dredd the law needs to change. I’m pretty sure that’s not what I want.
I’ll declare an interest as my son is in the police. They aren’t perfect but they do a trying job in difficult conditions. If society wants them to be able to dole out a crack around the ear or act like Judge Dredd the law needs to change. I’m pretty sure that’s not what I want.
Discipline and knowing the difference between right and wrong used to be taught in schools from day 1 and coppers would give you a clip and take you home for the parents to be informed, now with this cotton wool culture nothing is wrong and discipline is no more so kids become ferral and lawless with no respect for anything including themselves but we knew that years ago and are now seeing the end results of free for all schooling.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
When I was a kid the police role was unambiguous - maintain the peace, catch and punish offenders, protect the public. Moderate use of force was accepted. Public confidence was high.
Whether due to reduced police numbers, or changing social expectations, the police now act (in part) as social workers, their actions constrained by fear of prosecution for unreasonable use of force, racism, etc, and an expectation they empathise with the reasons for poor behaviour.
The strategy for dealing with public unrest and minor crime seems to be to defuse confrontation, not sanction those causing the problem. Saturday night alcohol inflamed disorder - call the disruptive a taxi. Shoplifting - the offender has a problem - anyway there is too much paperwork.
In some respects this may be the most efficient way to maintain public order - eg: looking on whilst rioters inflict major damage avoids direct confrontation. But it leaves victims of minor crime (which may cause material distress) completely dissatisfied.
Personally I would prefer the police focussed on law and order, not social work. There does need to be control over their occasional excessive and inappropriate behaviour, but the balance must be on police protecting the public, not concerns for the rights and rationale of the offender.
Whether due to reduced police numbers, or changing social expectations, the police now act (in part) as social workers, their actions constrained by fear of prosecution for unreasonable use of force, racism, etc, and an expectation they empathise with the reasons for poor behaviour.
The strategy for dealing with public unrest and minor crime seems to be to defuse confrontation, not sanction those causing the problem. Saturday night alcohol inflamed disorder - call the disruptive a taxi. Shoplifting - the offender has a problem - anyway there is too much paperwork.
In some respects this may be the most efficient way to maintain public order - eg: looking on whilst rioters inflict major damage avoids direct confrontation. But it leaves victims of minor crime (which may cause material distress) completely dissatisfied.
Personally I would prefer the police focussed on law and order, not social work. There does need to be control over their occasional excessive and inappropriate behaviour, but the balance must be on police protecting the public, not concerns for the rights and rationale of the offender.
Policing in the UK is significantly different than the US or even Germany and France. I think my training and tactics are more compatible with the European police forces than the UK police.
In my last assignment in the Patrol Division, I responded to hundreds of violent crimes in progress, conducted thousands of traffic violation stops, and made over 50 DUI arrests (drink driving). Of all the DUI arrests, only one did not result in a court conviction because the driver of the single vehicle accident died of her injuries in the hospital the day after I delivered the arrest warrant.
I left the Sheriff's Office before Taser's were issued. The tools available to me at the time were my quick wit, charming demeanor, OC spray, ASP baton, an array of firearms*, and a constantly evaluated exit strategy in case the situation went bad and I had to advance to the rear in a hurry. I was not dispatched to solve problems, mend broken hearts, or congratulate Johnny on winning first place in the spelling bee. If any issue could not be resolved with the tools on my duty belt, I had to defer to someone else. If time was not an issue (rarely), I would listen and take notes. Otherwise, I was back on the road since I had over 250 square miles of country roads to patrol by myself.
* I carried a SigSauer P220 in .45ACP with two spare 7-round magazines (22 rounds total as my primary duty weapon, a 5-shot AMT BackUp in .45ACP on an ankle holster, a Remington 870 12-gauge pump shotgun with ten rounds each of 00 buckshot and slugs in the cruiser, and later a H&K MP5 and three spare 30-round magazines in the cruiser. I also had a spare P220 in a hidden holster under the driver's seat.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I’m not sure public confidence was quite as some think it was or whether it turned out to be unfounded. The Police and Criminal Evidence Act came about due to a whole host of corruption and “fitting up”. Dixonof Dock Green was actually a work of fiction.
The current system is massively flawed. Dumping those with mental health issues with no support is one example as the Police are left picking up the pieces which may be what is described above as social work.
The current system is massively flawed. Dumping those with mental health issues with no support is one example as the Police are left picking up the pieces which may be what is described above as social work.
And even knowing that I bet you still got the idiots who thought they were bigger and harder!!!
Yes, and some were bigger and badder. However, when I explained that I can't fight them but will shoot, they reconsidered.
One sound that always had the desired effect of changing a person's attitude was the sound of the 870 chambering a round on a quiet night. Strangely enough, some people are less bothered by a single bullet wound than they are with a shotgun blast at close quarters and tend to give up. The eight .30 caliber pellets are not people friendly. A police dog is the other great scale tipper in a tense situation.
I've seen our police set dogs on people while they're cuffed on the ground and of no danger to anyone. Theres also been several cases recently of police punching people while on the ground, even cuffed. They call it a 'distraction technique' But the reality is its a violent assault to make them comply to their will.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/19/deaths-police-custody-data
I've read some horrifying cases, including one of parents who called the police because their son, who had long standing mental health issues and was having a bad day and a bit of a meltdown.
The police arrived, went into his bedroom and the poor lad died of blunt force trauma in the struggle as the police officers sought to force his compliance.
Im more than sure his parents regret calling them.
No case to answer despite the coroners report of the lad receiving injuries consistent with a car crash.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/19/deaths-police-custody-data
I've read some horrifying cases, including one of parents who called the police because their son, who had long standing mental health issues and was having a bad day and a bit of a meltdown.
The police arrived, went into his bedroom and the poor lad died of blunt force trauma in the struggle as the police officers sought to force his compliance.
Im more than sure his parents regret calling them.
No case to answer despite the coroners report of the lad receiving injuries consistent with a car crash.
Last edited:
rafezetter
Troll Hunter
Ever had a conversation with your son about what he thinks needs to change for the force as a whole to be more effective? I know what my answer would be, stringent pshychological screening. It's my suspicion that a significant portion of the police join for either the power trip, the fat pension, or because it's slightly easier than the army - the ones that actually WANT to "protect and SERVE" the more vulnerable members of the community are in the minority.
When I was younger I thought about joining, having been a Guardian Angel on the London underground for a couple of years; then I had a run in myself with 2 officers who tried to have me prosecuted for carrying an offensive weapon with intent to harm, when all I had done was collect the knife from a friend that had sharpened it for fishing. They claimed I was going to attack people with it and had resisted arrest, all of which was untrue. Apparently to them simply having a knife like that was ample evidence of intent to harm, based on nothing other than thier own opinion, even after speaking to my friend whom had sharpened it - the Judge however actually paid attention to my friends testimony, my fishing licence etc etc and threw the case out.
It was at that point I decided the police are just as crooked as everyone else and I've never trusted them since - especially so now they have targets to reach of successful prosecutions etc etc.
It's a point of annoyance to me that there's no simple mechanism for the public to have the police prosecuted / fined / mark put on thier record for false arrest - yes there is one, but it's both expensive, HUGELY time consuming often taking YEARS, and it seems a lot of the time the police win anyway because Judges don't want to undermine the system.
It should be that if you get arrested and it goes to court and the case is dismissed outright because it's bullpinapple, it should go on thier records - get 5 of those and boom you're out, no pension no nothing.
They should be forced to do thier due diligence to it's utmost, just like all the other professions that have a direct and serious, often longterm, impact on peoples lives, with a mentality of "if I've got this wrong I could ruin this persons life forever, so I need to make sure I'm right, not "maybe right" or "enough to get a successful prosecution right" but actually 100% right", however it seems like if a copper says "you did it" that's enough.
The people don't trust the police because too many by percentage are crooked and almost none of the good ones are doing anything to bring them in line for fear of repercussions themselves.
/rant
