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AndyT

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@Inspector You can control this yourself if you choose the right browser. For example, I use Opera on my mobile because it has data saving features built in. You can choose whether to download pictures in three grades of quality, or not at all. (You can also save data by choosing not to download ads. )

It seems an ideal answer for anyone whose connection is on the slow side.

I expect other browsers have similar features.
 

Inspector

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I appreciate your input Andy but I like to keep things simple and don't want multiple browsers. I only use the phone to access the site occasionally. I'll stick with the Safari stuff the iMac and iPhone came with. I'll poke around and see what downloading options they have.

Pete
 

AES

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Dear Angie/Tech Admin:

On 15th October AJB Temple asked some very basic - AND IMO very important - questions about the situation when a member pays the 20 quid to support UKW, then, for whatever reason, cancels that payment/leaves UKW part way through an already "paid-for period".

There was some activity by "UKW officialdom" (plus various members - myself included) during the period 15th to 18th Oct, then again on 19th & 20th October.

BUT to date there has been NIL reply by "UKW officialdom" covering these fundamental question/s raised by AJB Temple.

Whilst I appreciate world time zone differences do play a role here, and I'm sure that "officialdom" has other Forums to run, I do find it "worrying" - to say the least! - that as of today, 22nd October, STILL no detailed reply has been posted.

I am not sure if it is a legal requirement under UK law to post such details (personally I am anyway not subject to UK law), BUT surely it is "only" a matter of standard decent business practice - if not "just" common politeness - to provide detailed answer/s?

Such matters SHOULD anyway be fully detailed in the terms and conditions of using UKW.

Remembering the considerable bad feeling that was generated by the original "takeover" of the Forum, I would have thought that the new owners would have realised that they have considerable ground to make up in the eyes of at least some previous members here.

In any event, I for one will NOT be supporting this Forum with said 20 quid until the above matters are fully clarified - in writing please note.

So "do come on owners, it's time to get yer finger/s out - please"!

P.S. I do appreciate that the above matters cannot be handled by the "ordinary site Mods".
 

lurker

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I agree with AES, i would like to subscribe, but not if there’s the remotest possibility that I will get charged should I change my mind in the future.
 

AJB Temple

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I agree gentlemen. My original query was not inflammatory and was reasonable.

I have queried it with PayPal (I had already cancelled my auto renewal). The way UKW's owners appear to work is that the £20 per annum is taken annually from our accounts automatically every year, with no advance notice or notification. There is no facility within the forum itself to prevent auto renewal and it is apparently not disclosed that auto-renewal takes place.

PayPal is not a bank and so there is no "call back" facility which allows payments to be retrieved (for example if a member was completely unaware that money was going to be taken from his account and had he known would not have agreed).

This is really such a simple and basic thing that there is no need for site admin to obfuscate about it. It is only £20, but it is reasonable for it to be included transparently in T&Cs. Tech Admin when responding to me simply avoided answering the question in straightforward way. This just makes things look worse and is, in my opinion at least, unwise.

I still have no idea if I can cease being a "supporter" and get a partial refund. I don't necessarily want to either cease being a supporter or get a refund: I just want to be treated in a transparent and fair way.

I am perfectly happy to discuss this with site admin or any of the moderating team. I am not seeking to be difficult - these are really quite routine matters and so easy to put to bed. Resolving them seems sensible to avoid future disagreements and forum damaging conflict.

Kind regards, Adrian
 

Keith

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My apologies I thought you were trying to be inflammatory and use legal speak to belittle me. I felt like I answered the question and worried that no answer or follow-up would be suffice for the three of you because the goal was not policy but to inflame. I must have read it wrong, I'm sorry for my error.

As far as PayPal goes, you can cancel your subscription at any time in your PayPal account. PayPal absolutely has a dispute function and it almost always sides on the Buyer.

As to the question about a refund, we have never gotten that request before but if you sent Angie a PM or the Contact form and asked for it, we would give it. I don't want to keep any funds from someone that doesn't enjoy the community and/or website anymore. We are a small operation, it's just Angie and I, so if you need someone just PM one of us and we will take care of it.
 

AJB Temple

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Thank you. I am astounded that you should have thought these questions were inflammatory. I have reviewed all of my posts and can see no "legal speak" either. I have never sought to belittle anyone in any thread and especially as you (presumably the site owner?) are anonymous behind the Tech Admin name. If you felt belittled why did you not simply contact me in a "conversation"? Anyway that was not my intent and I doubt if any one else saw it that way.

This being a UK forum it is quite normal and expected to have terms and conditions covering payments. May I suggest that you just include these things in your T&Cs so that we know what we are letting ourselves in for when or if we subscribe. May I suggest that it is reasonable to give subscribers an option within the forum to into auto renewal rather than having to opt out via a third party. Then your policy would be seen as perfectly transparent and reputable irrespective of the size of your operation.

Kind regards, Adrian
 

Keith

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Well I guess you would have to understand my perspective of running forums for 20+ years. You tend to see the same things so judge things, though you do misjudge actions sometimes which I did in this case. I do often see that when a member is unhappy with a transition, or the community or wants to build another forum, they will find more niche complaints and be insistent on them, then when the community doesn't get upset, they will find the next one, rinse and repeat. I assumed that is what you were trying to do since I had answered the question I felt. I did apologize because it appears that the three of you are very sincere in your care about these issues. My sincere apologies.

I have added a line in the T&C. If it's not to your satisfaction I would be open to changing it. We don't have an attorney, if you are open to rewriting and charging for that I would be open to that as well so it's to your satisfaction.

Angie will work on getting a non-subscription option as well. She should have that done today.
 

AES

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@Tech Admin: I find myself, once again, 100% in support of AJB Temple (and other members) regarding this thread.

Though of course I post completely "on my own recognisance" and would not, for example, recognise in person "AJB T" nor any other member involved if they should walk into my office right now!

I for one am prepared to accept that you (Mr/Mrs/Miss? Tech Admin) were genuinely in the position of misunderstanding the ideas and reasoning behind this area of the thread, and will, giving the benefit of the doubt, put that misunderstanding down to (I think?) Winston Churchill's well-known "two nations divided by a common language"!

However I must once again support "AJB T" - and the other members involved here - if you think someone is QUOTE: .... inflammatory and use[ing] legal speak to belittle [you] ..... UNQUOTE: that IF this should happen to you again you simply post and ask "what's happening folks?" (or words to that effect)!!

You'll find - if you haven't noticed already - that most of us are quite reasonable people most of the time (Yes, I include myself here!) except perhaps if discussing how to sharpen wood working tools! :)

From previous information given by/about "you", I presume you are the owner of this site, correct?

If so, while I do appreciate that you are in business in a small way, with "just" two staff (?), I think you will agree that it is perfectly normal business practice all over the world - and in many places a legal requirement too - to publish a clear set of terms and conditions covering ALL aspects of usage of your site.

In fact, a few weeks back several members invested some time and effort in "to-ing and fro-ing" to come up with a generally acceptable set of terms and conditions covering many aspects of usage of this site under "your" (new) ownership. As far as I could see at the time, quite a good general consensus in this area was achieved amongst the membership. BUT also as far as I can see, very little - if nothing at all - has been done by you, the site owner, to publish such a revised set of terms and conditions.

So I, acting purely on my own behalf, now ask "you", the site owner/s directly:

1. Is it your intention to publish a full set of terms and conditions covering all REASONABLE aspects of using and subscribing to the UKW website?

and

2. By when will these revised terms and conditions be published please?

and

3. Will you please announce to all members that said revised terms and conditions are have indeed been published and are now valid?

I apologise if the above wording seems at all confrontational and/or "legalistic" to you. I can assure you that this is definitely NOT my intention - I am merely seeking to clarify what appears to me - and apparently to several other members as well - to be at present a far from clear situation.

If you ARE in any way offended I apologise in advance and suggest we all simply put it down to "good 'ole Winston" again.

Respectfully

AES
 

AJB Temple

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Thanks Tech Admin. These days I never give legal advice or financial advice to anyone as I no longer practice. The T&Cs are yours. I read your extra line and that seems simple enough. If Angie is changing the subscription system so that people opt in to auto renewal rather than being opted in by default, then I would just add a line to that effect in your T&Cs if I were you.

I have no wish for a refund - I just wanted my decision about whether to renew my support being my choice not yours by default.

Thank you for listening and taking action on this matter. That is appreciated.

Kind regards, Adrian
 

AES

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@Tech Admin: I find myself, once again, 100% in support of AJB Temple (and other members) regarding this thread.

Though of course I post completely "on my own recognisance" and would not, for example, recognise in person "AJB T" nor any other member involved if they should walk into my office right now!

I for one am prepared to accept that you (Mr/Mrs/Miss? Tech Admin) were genuinely in the position of misunderstanding the ideas and reasoning behind this area of the thread, and will, giving the benefit of the doubt, put that misunderstanding down to (I think?) Winston Churchill's well-known "two nations divided by a common language"!

However I must once again support "AJB T" - and the other members involved here - if you think someone is QUOTE: .... inflammatory and use[ing] legal speak to belittle [you] ..... UNQUOTE: that IF this should happen to you again you simply post and ask "what's happening folks?" (or words to that effect)!!

You'll find - if you haven't noticed already - that most of us are quite reasonable people most of the time (Yes, I include myself here!) except perhaps if discussing how to sharpen wood working tools! :)

From previous information given by/about "you", I presume you are the owner of this site, correct?

If so, while I do appreciate that you are in business in a small way, with "just" two staff (?), I think you will agree that it is perfectly normal business practice all over the world - and in many places a legal requirement too - to publish a clear set of terms and conditions covering ALL aspects of usage of your site.

In fact, a few weeks back several members invested some time and effort in "to-ing and fro-ing" to come up with a generally acceptable set of terms and conditions covering many aspects of usage of this site under "your" (new) ownership. As far as I could see at the time, quite a good general consensus in this area was achieved amongst the membership. BUT also as far as I can see, very little - if nothing at all - has been done by you, the site owner, to publish such a revised set of terms and conditions.

So I, acting purely on my own behalf, now ask "you", the site owner/s directly:

1. Is it your intention to publish a full set of terms and conditions covering all REASONABLE aspects of using and subscribing to the UKW website?

and

2. By when will these revised terms and conditions be published please?

and

3. Will you please announce to all members that said revised terms and conditions are have indeed been published and are now valid?

I apologise if the above wording seems at all confrontational and/or "legalistic" to you. I can assure you that this is definitely NOT my intention - I am merely seeking to clarify what appears to me - and apparently to several other members as well - to be at present a far from clear situation.

If you ARE in any way offended I apologise in advance and suggest we all simply put it down to "good 'ole Winston" again.

Respectfully

AES
It seems that my last post (above) crossed with yours - by 7 minutes!!!

Thank you for your prompt attention. I will review and comment as necessary later.
 

AES

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@Tech Admin & Angie: OK, I've read the revised t's & c's and it all looks fine to me, thanks for the quick responses.
 

DBT85

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In the absence of any shift in post editing rules back to "Previously On" could the following changes please be made.

Change the title to

Sip 01446 12" Table saw details, repairs and review

change the title to
DBT85s Workshop - Moved in and now time to fit it out

There will be a much larger update to the OP for the workshop thread just as soon as I've finished the video edits and written the new parts for the OP.
 

MikeK

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In the absence of any shift in post editing rules back to "Previously On" could the following changes please be made.

There will be a much larger update to the OP for the workshop thread just as soon as I've finished the video edits and written the new parts for the OP.
I made the changes you requested. Another way to request a change to a thread or post is to use the "Report" function. For a thread change, report the first post in the thread and include the information for the change in the "Report reason" text block. Making the request in this thread is fine as well.
 

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