Newbee needs help on planer/thicknesser to keep digits.

[ayuce]

I'm scared of big power tools, especially table saw and planer, and love my fingers, need them to earn life. I bite the bullet and buy a woodster like planer/thicknesser clone. Its got 1500w universal motor, cast aluminum table, thick aluminum profile fence, poor guard and 250mm max jointing width. Needs some blade and infeed table adjustments but thats later.



Seached the forum, but can't find a direct answer, perhaps its down to basics. I ve got three question about it.

1) Guard moves freely up and down ( 3 ) but what i expect is to fix its height by the screw (1) for face jointing. My friend says -like edge planing- i should move the guard side (2), but i think the screw faulty. Its got a unthreaded part. Am i wrong ?

2) Since the guard goes up/down freely I'm thinking adding a small angled plastic bar to lift up guard by the woods face, like suva jointer guard. ( like red bar on the bottom of picture) Do you think this idea works ?

3) Two push block one push bar came with the machine. I know the technique using only hands on face of wood, hands sliding over the guard. Still i prefer using push block/stick, and guard covers blade always if possible. Found some videos but all American, with pork chop jointer guard.

As a total newbie to jointer, could you suggest some youtube videos how to use planer -having EU stye guard- safely for edge and face planing?

Regards

 

[Jacob]

Depends what you mean but push blocks are a really bad idea - they place your hands too close to the cutters and too far up the workpiece. I'd bin them immediately!
On the other hand push sticks are essential - not just safety but also makes handling easier.

 

[ayuce]

Push blocks are similar to those

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00F3BJ4Q2/ref=redir_mdp
_mobile/190-4206684-7410904

 

[RobinBHM]

The HSE have some useful notes on using surface planing machines.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/workingmachine.htm

It is important to understand how set the bridge guard for different timber sizes, wide flat boards need a different approach when facing to when edging.

 

[Jacob]

Push blocks are similar to those

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00F3BJ4Q2/ref=redir_mdp
_mobile/190-4206684-7410904

I'd bin them. They give an illusion of safety but in fact can lead you to overreach and/or pass close to the cutters.

 

[ayuce]

The HSE have some useful notes on using surface planing machines.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/workingmachine.htm

It is important to understand how set the bridge guard for different timber sizes, wide flat boards need a different approach when facing to when edging.

Robin thanks for the link. Guard position should be as i guess, wide board should pass under the guard. For edge jointing, move guard to side just enough. Not much info on how to handle wood, bare hands, a kind of push block and push stick.. all options given.

Push blocks are similar to those

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00F3BJ4Q2/ref=redir_mdp
_mobile/190-4206684-7410904

I'd bin them. They give an illusion of safety but in fact can lead you to overreach and/or pass close to the cutters.

Jacob consider them binned. I've read three planer accident on this forum, If i recall correctly, for all blade guard was in place and at least on one incident push blocks was in use (tip of middle finger lost). So can't trust on blade guard and push block for protection. Any proper video how to use jointer using push sticks ?

 

[Shrubby]

If you use Robin's link , on the left of the page is 'Introduction to woodcutting machinery' there is a page on planers with a video showing good techniques
Matt

 

[Jacob]

...... Any proper video how to use jointer using push sticks ?

I haven't seen one. I'll try and do some photos sometime. The sort I recommend are as per the shape below but NOT plastic (shatters) or solid wood (splits/splinters). Use ply, MDF, perhaps chipboard; which will get trimmed/chopped if they slip into the cutters but won't send bits flying. There are rumours of huge splinters from solid wood sticks getting stuck in painful places.
Always have a few lying around so you don't have to search for them, and always use 2.

 

[blackrodd]

The HSE have some useful notes on using surface planing machines.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/workingmachine.htm

It is important to understand how set the bridge guard for different timber sizes, wide flat boards need a different approach when facing to when edging.

Excellent link Robin, I've not seen these before, I would hope that home wood workers pay them some heed,
and save a nasty experience!
Regards Rodders

 

[Ed Bray]

Just read through the HSE info, in image #9 how are you supposed to push the wood through the 'tunnel guard'?

 

[blackrodd]

Just read through the HSE info, in image #9 how are you supposed to push the wood through the 'tunnel guard'?

By feeding through the "test" set up piece,used to set the guarding and cutter set up, and finally used as a sacrificial and safety piece for final end feeding.
Regards Rodders

 

[ayuce]

Starting on 1:30 there is an example of bare hand handling technique. Although HSE video also demonstrates "bare hand" handling, kick back ( or kick forward) can pull your hand to blade. Just read "oops..." thread.
http://youtu.be/AfdfNK86ItE

same technique starting on 1:00
http://youtu.be/dYrNxbxXlg0


Mr Parfitt uses different guard position and handling. While jointing face bare hand for front, push stick for back, for edge jointing just hands.
http://youtu.be/Eh-jo11lsMs

starting on 1:30 two push block sample, one of them custom made.
http://youtu.be/q6Fcpz4du20

still searching on youtube for jointing with push sticks.

 

[Jacob]

Starting on 1:30 there is an example of bare hand handling technique. ....
http://youtu.be/AfdfNK86ItE

Clumsy technique. Much better with push sticks - and actually easier. You leave a gap for the push stick to go through so it's one smooth movement from beginning to end with your hands always well away from the cutter

same technique starting on 1:00
http://youtu.be/dYrNxbxXlg0

Still a bit clumsy - better with a push stick at least in your right hand so you can push the tail end past without being near the blade, and also without having to reach so far forwards

Mr Parfitt uses different guard position and handling. While jointing face bare hand for front, push stick for back, for edge jointing just hands.
http://youtu.be/Eh-jo11lsMs

Much better!
NB I'd use a push stick with the board on edge too, and also have one in my left hand. After a bit it just becomes 2nd nature and you feel exposed without them.

starting on 1:30 two push block sample, one of them custom made.
http://youtu.be/q6Fcpz4du20 .....

Those push blocks are stupidly dangerous. Look how she has to lean forwards. She could do just the same with push sticks and a lot safer. As a rule american safety stuff is the pits.

 

[Peter Sefton]

In the HSE sheet the use of a tunnel guard is to illustrate how rebating should be done on a planer, but rebating on the planer is not within the ACOP's and should now be done on a spindle or router table. New machines have on the whole has the ability to rebate designed out of them and they are not provided with or designed to take shaw guards.

The HSE advice is quite clear you should use your hands to hold timber down and push it through the machine, the bridge guard should cover the cutter block and be set a close as possible to the timber, the general rule is within 10mm the old regs said 12mm. The use of push sticks is not a recommended practice on the surfacer but push blocks should be used on short timber.

This is a short video of me using the Hammer Spiral Block on some very demanding timber. It was not meant as a safety training video but you may notice that the bridge guard is set to cover the entire length of the cutter block. My hands go over the bridge guard if the timber is kicked back my hands should come in contact with the tables or the bridge guard but not find the cutter block.

If I was edging the board the bridge guard would be reset as close as possible to the thin edge of the timber. My hands would guide the timber through the machine and be lifted of the timber as it passes over the cutter block! I would not use my trailing hand on the back edge of the timber to push it through (one day you will leave your finger behind! You should never have your hand over the top of the cutter block without a guard being between you and the cutter block! If you have any kick back your hand will come in contact with the cutters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyHi5d5aAEw

The HSE video shows and explains what I am suggesting

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/planer.htm

This and other approved practices are what we teach on our short wood machining courses.

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

.... The use of push sticks is not a recommended practice on the surfacer but push blocks should be used on short timber.
.......

I think this is bad advice and overdue for revision.
On the video above you can see her left hand and push-block slip just at the start, and we had the mad yank a few weeks a go nearly losing a finger with push blocks. Admittedly he was doing other things badly but the push blocks weren't helping at all, and were doing nothing which wouldn't be done better and safer with push sticks

 

[Peter Sefton]

.... The use of push sticks is not a recommended practice on the surfacer but push blocks should be used on short timber.
.......

I think this is bad advice and overdue for revision.

I thought you might

Has the invitation arrived yet to be on the advisory committee?

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

.... The use of push sticks is not a recommended practice on the surfacer but push blocks should be used on short timber.
.......

I think this is bad advice and overdue for revision.

I thought you might

Has the invitation arrived yet to be on the advisory committee?

Cheers Peter

Not yet!
They should invite Mr Parfitt too. And Custard (below). And make sure nobody from Axminster or America is allowed in.

 

[custard]

1) Guard moves freely up and down ( 3 ) but what i expect is to fix its height by the screw (1) for face jointing. My friend says -like edge planing- i should move the guard side (2), but i think the screw faulty. Its got a unthreaded part. Am i wrong ?

Hello Ayuce,

every modern European planer/thicknesser I've worked on has a safety guard that you either set so it is just a tiny bit higher than the thickness of the wood, or there is an angled section at the front of the guard so it lifts itself up over the wood and then rests on top of the wood as you push it through. On my planer the maximum height that the guard can be set is about 80mm above the table, the instructions say that if the wood is thicker than 80mm then you move the guard to the side and leave it flat on the table, so it covers at least some of the cutter block unless the wood is the full width of the table. You only do this if the wood is thicket than 80mm.

So as far as I 'm concerned you are not wrong, if you can't set the height of the guard then the machine is at fault. The only other thing I would say is that it common for there to be an unthreaded section on the screw, this is so that you can disengage the arm that holds the guard and swing it away when you want to set the planer knives.

As far as safety goes, I work on the basis that my hands should never be closer than 300mm from a machine's blade. Okay, on some occasions I'll get a bit closer, particularly with a bandsaw, but the general principle is that 300mm is the "danger zone" and I really do try to keep my hands at least that distance away.

Hope that helps.

Good luck!

 

[PAC1]

Personally on a planer I prefer to use neither push block nor push stick. Anything shorter than a foot either plane by hand, do not use it or remake it out of something longer and cut it down afterwards.
As for the guard it should be capable of sliding fully over the blade at a height where your digits cannot get underneath and raising to 50 to 80mm so that you can plane both narrow and wide safely.

 

[n0legs]

My input, being from someone who suffered an accident with the surface planer.

For surfacing.
Dry run with machine unplugged. Allows you to fine tune the guard position.
Plan where your hands or push pads will be throughout the cut.
Hands and /or push pads up and over the bridge guard, like Peter and the HSE demo show.

I tried push sticks and I do not at all feel in control of the workpiece.
I felt to far away, there s only a small contact area between stick and timber. As the cutting block engaged with the timber I felt as if the wood was kicking back at me, very unnerving. Another point I'll make, I felt I was going to snap the push stick with the amount of pressure I was applying to get the cut completed.
I tried and failed with them and now they don't get used. Push blocks for me and I have a home made one like the lady uses in the video for pushing with. I feel very safe using them whilst using the machine.

For edge jointing.
Again dry run.
Bridge guard as tight to the workpiece as possible, about 3mm or less and right down against the table.
If taller than the fence, I use hands only.
Using a hand over hand method until there's at least 300 mm past the cutters on the outfeed side. I then take hold of the piece and continue the cut, making sure to let go on the infeed side when I'm approx 150 mm left to cut. I bring this hand outfeed side and complete the cut.
For pieces lower than the fence I use the push pads.
Bridge guard as above.
Push pads one horizontal the other vertical, gripping the timber.
Using a modified "hand over hand" method I feed the timber through, observing the same distances I use for the hand only method above.

The push sticks were a little better at edging, but again the distance away from the timber was an issue for me.
I simply don't feel enough in control, therefore I don't use them.

Find yourself a safe way of doing it. Practice all operations you are likely to need to know with the machine off, I wish I had.
If a piece comes up that you don't know how to feed through, shut down the machine, take 5 and think it out. Practice a few times with machine off then go for it if you feel comfortable and safe to do so.
If you don't, stop and ask questions here, no one will think you're a fool and most will willingly advise.