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New Table Saw or New Fence System

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johnbulls74

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Hi All,

I currently have a oldish Cast Iron Sealy SM37 10" table saw with a custom fence (not made by me). Its clamps at both ends on steel tubes. It is very rigid which is good. The saw itself cuts ok (struggles with thicker bits)

The problem i am having is that the fence is never square and every cut i make requires re-adjusting and measuring of the fence, which is really irritating. I would like to be able to move the fence to a point and know it is square.

I cant seem to find any decent after market Fence systems other than the Incra System but for that price i could get a whole new saw...... plus it looks like it takes up a lot of space. I don't like the idea of making one either as i am new to woodworking and i imagine it would not be very good.

Am i best to go down the route of getting a new saw, which comes with a better fence or going for the Incra system? Or are there any others i have missed?

It took me months to choose the current table saw (which i now regret the purchase, I went for it as it was close and cheap) as there seems to be loads of different options. (new/old etc)

I have seen a couple of Kity 619 /1619 table saws which look good but i don't know if the fences are any good? plus after last time am am a little nervous of getting a second hand table saw and they are rarely in North Yorkshire (where i am).

Dust extraction is another worry as my current saw is rubbish as there are two large gaps so difficult for my extraction system to cope with but this is less of a worry and more of an irritant as i wear a face mask.

About me...

I am fairly new to woodworking (and this forum) so i consider myself a novice. I have a large shed as a workshop with normal mains power which houses my Table saw, Band-saw, Mitre saw, Thicknesser, Router table and drill press. At the moment i have been making Chopping boards but i want to be able to make all sorts of different things in the future like Coffee Tables, Picture frames, Wodden Toys, Beds etc... I use the table saw the most in my workshop and have built a few sleds which they work ok.
I don't need to cut large sheets down very often. I don't really want to spend more than £500 but could stretch it for the right saw/fence but would need the boss's (wife) approval.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly
John
 

TFrench

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I have a kity. The original fence was ok, but I upgraded to one of the axminster ones. Very happy with it. Dust extraction is pretty good with the kity. I think mine is a 619. Most new saws in the lower price bracket are going to have a pretty pants fence, its where they save money. I use a track saw to break sheets down, its much easier than wrestling a full sheet onto the saw on your own!
 

twodoctors

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The struggle!

On the budget end of the scale (under £300), the fence is not going to be perfect. I'm working at this end of the budget and I will have to accept "square enough" which should be fine for me (I think). I'm currently considering the Charnwood W616.

The next price point is around £650, where you can get a "cheap" cabinet saw like the Charnwood W619 or a similar (same) saw with Scheppach name on it.

In between there is the DeWalt 475 site saw, which gets rave review.

Go secondhand is usually a good idea, but beware of unscrupulous sellers on Gumtree and eBay...

I live near Charnwood showroom so I'm planning on a trip down to see the W616 and W619... and hopefully I can get away with just the W616 and save £300! :p

I won't go down the fence-route... it's like installing a turbo charger on a Fiesta. It will never be as good as getting a... Golf GTI (for example!) to start with.

Good luck.

Adrian
 

siggy_7

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twodoctors":3nzjvdpc said:
I won't go down the fence-route... it's like installing a turbo charger on a Fiesta. It will never be as good as getting a... Golf GTI (for example!) to start with.
I disagree. If the saw unit itself is decent, then an accurate and solid fence is all it needs. I have a homemade fence on my record saw which is better than the original, rock solid, always square, super quick and accurate to adjust. You have to spend big money on a new saw to get something equivalent.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
 

marcros

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TFrench":23u3oumf said:
I have a kity. The original fence was ok, but I upgraded to one of the axminster ones. Very happy with it. Dust extraction is pretty good with the kity. I think mine is a 619. Most new saws in the lower price bracket are going to have a pretty pants fence, its where they save money. I use a track saw to break sheets down, its much easier than wrestling a full sheet onto the saw on your own!
I have the Kity 618, and I also upgraded the fence system. I chose the saw based on the quality of a previous Kity 419 that I had and sold. The original fence was ok, but I planned to make a clamp based beismeier type fence of which there are various plans online. If I recall correctly, the plan I looked at was in fine woodworking, and I probably have a copy somewhere. It was a very old edition of the magazine, before it was glossy and full of pictures like today.

Just as I was about to but the parts, somebody was selling their fence from (I think) a SIP, when they moved to an incra, so I bought that.

it was a few years back, but the main part of the job was replacing the rails with some off the shelf angle iron and box section. I don't remember how I joined the two, but it would have been a fixing of some form because I can't weld. I probably also had to drill and tap the top and I think there was a lip to remove which I did carefully with a router.

in my opinion, the Kity is a decent starting point for a good saw. it isn't the only starting point.

verysupercooltools used to do a good fence that you could use for inspiration. they did a build video on youtube, but it involved welding. worth watching even if you replace parts with a toggle clamp.
 

marcros

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I should add that the 618, or 619 with its standard fence is probably plenty good enough and that I probably wouldn't upgrade the fence until and unless you find limitations with it. I dont remember why I did though. possibly encouraged by a fashion to do so at the time, and parts available at a good price.
 

Bodgers

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johnbulls74":2yfgykm9 said:
Hi All,

I currently have a oldish Cast Iron Sealy SM37 10" table saw with a custom fence (not made by me). Its clamps at both ends on steel tubes. It is very rigid which is good. The saw itself cuts ok (struggles with thicker bits)

The problem i am having is that the fence is never square and every cut i make requires re-adjusting and measuring of the fence, which is really irritating. I would like to be able to move the fence to a point and know it is square.

I cant seem to find any decent after market Fence systems other than the Incra System but for that price i could get a whole new saw...... plus it looks like it takes up a lot of space. I don't like the idea of making one either as i am new to woodworking and i imagine it would not be very good.

Am i best to go down the route of getting a new saw, which comes with a better fence or going for the Incra system? Or are there any others i have missed?

It took me months to choose the current table saw (which i now regret the purchase, I went for it as it was close and cheap) as there seems to be loads of different options. (new/old etc)

I have seen a couple of Kity 619 /1619 table saws which look good but i don't know if the fences are any good? plus after last time am am a little nervous of getting a second hand table saw and they are rarely in North Yorkshire (where i am).

Dust extraction is another worry as my current saw is rubbish as there are two large gaps so difficult for my extraction system to cope with but this is less of a worry and more of an irritant as i wear a face mask.

About me...

I am fairly new to woodworking (and this forum) so i consider myself a novice. I have a large shed as a workshop with normal mains power which houses my Table saw, Band-saw, Mitre saw, Thicknesser, Router table and drill press. At the moment i have been making Chopping boards but i want to be able to make all sorts of different things in the future like Coffee Tables, Picture frames, Wodden Toys, Beds etc... I use the table saw the most in my workshop and have built a few sleds which they work ok.
I don't need to cut large sheets down very often. I don't really want to spend more than £500 but could stretch it for the right saw/fence but would need the boss's (wife) approval.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly
John
That Sealy is not Cast Iron, almost certainly aluminium. I think putting an Incra system on that would like putting a set of F1 wheels on a Lada.

£500 gets you a proper cast iron table saw with decent dust extraction, quiet induction motor and proper cabinet saw trunions (with an excellent warranty and service support):

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-c ... saw-104926

(Fence is also pretty good, and has two modes for small parts).
 

Trevanion

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Bodgers":39y87waz said:
That Sealy is not Cast Iron, almost certainly aluminium. I think putting an Incra system on that would like putting a set of F1 wheels on a Lada.
I've definitely seen one Sealey saw that had a cast iron top, with a fence on rods front and back like an old Wadkin AGS, which seems to be what Johnbulls is describing. Probably not a terrible saw.
 

Steve Maskery

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Your existing fence does not sit square BECAUSE it clamps at fore and aft. It is a recipe for disaster, as you have found out.

A good fence uses the 3-point system, like the Beismeyer and the Xcalibur (I have the latter rather than the former - sadly no longer available).

When I filmed my Tablesaw series of DVDs I built a rock-solid 3-point fence. I still have it. It is as good as a Beismeyer. No welding, just cutting, filing, drilling and tapping. Inexpensive and Excellent, a rare combo, wouldn't you say?

At the time I think it cost me about £50, but most of that was for the clamp. That same clamp is available for a lot less money these days. The rest is just off-the-shelf box section and angle steel, plus a few nuts and bolts. It rides on adjustable nylon bearers, so it slides sweetly and is adjustable for square in all three dimensions. It is ALWAYS square, Right First Time Every Time.

I can't put a link in the body of this post, but follow the link in my signature. You are looking for Workshop Essentials 10.

There are at least two people on here who have built it.
 

johnbulls74

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Thanks all for your replys.

@Bodgers. I think is Cast Iron as it is very heavy and it is magnetic.

@Trevanion. The fact it looked the the Wadkin AGS type fence was what drew me to it in the beginning as i thought it would be a good fence.
It cuts well enough for my needs and at the moment its just annoying having to re adjust the fence all the time.

@Steve. I have heard your fence system is very good, from looking through the forums. It looks like this may be the best option. Is it easy for a novice to make? I haven't done metal work before... I imagine getting the wholes drilled accurately is very important to getting it square to begin with?
 

marcros

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Square or adjustable so that you can make them square...
 

Steve Maskery

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johnbulls74":1vvsmh0v said:
@Steve. I have heard your fence system is very good, from looking through the forums. It looks like this may be the best option. Is it easy for a novice to make? I haven't done metal work before... I imagine getting the holes drilled accurately is very important to getting it square to begin with?
If I can do it, anyone can, I am no metalman, I can assure you. As marcross says, make it adjustable and you are away.

If I were to make it again, the only thing I would change is the section dimensions of the main fence itself. I used 50mm wide x 25mm high. Next time I would use 50mm wide x 75mm high. Everything else would be the same.
 

galleywood

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I made a scaled down version of Steve Maskery's fence for my bandsaw, and it is everything Steve says that it is.
Accurate marking out is the same for metalwork as it is for woodwork.
If you don't have a drill press to drill the holes, then make yourself a guide, from wood - a Google search will throw up various types.
It is straightford to make it.
 

johnbulls74

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I think it is beyond help, but i will take some pics tomorrow and post them on here.

@
galleywood":1th4wktx said:
I made a scaled down version of Steve Maskery's fence for my bandsaw, and it is everything Steve says that it is.
Accurate marking out is the same for metalwork as it is for woodwork.
If you don't have a drill press to drill the holes, then make yourself a guide, from wood - a Google search will throw up various types.
It is straightford to make it.
Do you need a good Tap and Die set as well? I do have a pillar drill (not the best) but it should do the trick. I don't have a tap and die set but there are cheap ones on Flebay would they do?

Thanks again
 

galleywood

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I think you only need taps - and as you say, readily available on the bay.
Design your fence around standard or cut down bolts.
 

Steve Maskery

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Don't bother with a set. The cheap ones are not great and you won't use most of them. Buy a tap wrench and an M6 tap. Buy decent quality, rather than a bigger set. Then you can add taps as you need them. It's a better use of your money.
 

Trevanion

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As Steve said, don't bother with the set, as soon as you buy it all its components are worthless.

Buy a decent second-hand tap wrench like an Eclipse 241 off eBay for less than a tenner, buy a decent new HSS Presto tap set of three in the size you need (M6 is about £10 for three taper, second and plug taps). Seems expensive compared to buying a complete set for about £25 as Mike posted above but really a good tap wrench is a lifetime tool and will always be worth what you paid for it secondhand and GOOD taps will fetch most of their sale value back if they're like new and only done a handful of holes. Cheap Chinese sets you practically can't give away.
 

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