New Laws vs Mail Order Tools

[Tasky]

One MP pointed out that young people who want knives sometimes steal them, which this bill would do nothing to prevent, but the debate moved on to other matters.

MPs have already debated this point over how most gun crime was committed using firearms already obtained illegally..... I can't see this being any different.

"anything that has a blade and is capable of causing serious injury"
Being of similar design to the medieval polearms with which I have a measure of proficiency, I could cause some pretty effin' serious injuries with a boating oar... which does have a blade. I've also cut someone's skin (technically torn) with just a punch, due to friction but in the same manner a blunt blade does.

 

[dynax]

it's the women i feel sorry for, what are they going to use for hat pins on ladies day at ascot :lol:

 

[ruralpragmatist]

Another fantastically thought out piece of legislation. This green and pleasant land is going to get extremely overgrown as I am sure most garden maintenance equipment would also fall under this ridiculous rule. Alright they may sell a limited selection in the DIY stores but they're not the best. Also this flies in the face of the environmental bandwagon as everyone will not have to travel to purchase bladed items rather than one van delivering many items. Imagine also all the people now having to travel around cities on public transport carrying bladed items as that's the only way they can now get them back to their residential address!

 

[Trevanion]

Imagine also all the people now having to travel around cities on public transport carrying bladed items as that's the only way they can now get them back to their residential address!

This is especially true if you've only got the one pickup location in the area. Any would be criminal youths that were desperate for a knife would just wait for someone to go in and come out with a package since they know the only reason people go in there and come out with a package is that it's a knife or something similar, so they follow the person a bit then mug them for the knife.

To be honest, whenever I've seen pictures of "the weapon in question" on the news that's been used by a youth to stab/kill someone, I think most of them have been mammy's veggie chopper, not a giant machete or axe.

 

[user22161]

I also wrote to my MP and obtained a reply saying he was in favour of the new Act so no joy there. On reading the Bill, there's an obvious exclusion for those carrying out (or appearing to) any business from home . When ordering anything to be posted from tool suppliers to home change your name from Mr Joe Bloggs to Joe Bloggs Joinery or similar. As it happens, I already have a trading name and trade invoices for years, doing boat maintenance (although very little these days) based at home.

OFFENSIVE WEAPONS BILL Section 15

Delivery of bladed products to residential premises etc

(5) In subsection (2) “residential premises” means premises used solely for
residential purposes.

(6) The circumstances where premises are not residential premises for the
purposes of that subsection include, in particular, where a person carries on a
business from the premises.

 

[Just4Fun]

(6) The circumstances where premises are not residential premises for the
purposes of that subsection include, in particular, where a person carries on a
business from the premises.

Interesting that it doesn't say that the tools have to be for the business. So you may be restricted in the tools you can have delivered for your woodworking hobby but the self-employed childrens' party clown next door can order whatever lethal weapon he likes.

 

[user22161]

Yes but, lets say you want something from Axminster, order it in the name ********* Joinery. Build up a file of invoices from various suppliers in that name and you have established in other's eyes that you're working from or at home.

Unfortunately, it still leaves the problem of suppliers finding a carrier who is willing to confirm age on delivery but I bet that won't be too much of a problem, judging by the way electronic signatures are scribbled now.

 

[DTR]

Yes but, lets say you want something from Axminster, order it in the name ********* Joinery. Build up a file of invoices from various suppliers in that name and you have established in other's eyes that you're working from or at home.

I'm just wondering if this may have other implications? E.g. will the local council get upset at a "business" running from a residential address? What about the taxman, or house insurance, or.......?

 

[user22161]

You worry too much. Never had a problem with local authority, even when genuinely working from home as it's allowed as long as not creating a nuisance, I used to get tax allowance on one room as office against heating, lighting, rates etc. For the bits and pieces we're buying for hobby, taxman interest is highly unlikely as most purchases are card sales rather than credit accounts which along with cash sales is what they mainly look at when doing an inspection. Insurance isn't a problem as you wouldn't actually be carrying out a business, just bending paperwork. I've been carrying out work at and from home for 50 or so years and never had a problem with anyone.

 

[Tasky]

I'm just wondering if this may have other implications? E.g. will the local council get upset at a "business" running from a residential address? What about the taxman, or house insurance, or.......?

Plausible deniability - You could argue that it's just the name of your blog or YouTube channel and you only get stuff sent in that name to help build awareness of your hobbyist activities.
See, if you were a business, you'd be paying for everything with a named business account, and charging money for stuff you made, no?

 

[Sheffield Tony]

OFFENSIVE WEAPONS BILL Section 15

Delivery of bladed products to residential premises etc

(5) In subsection (2) “residential premises” means premises used solely for
residential purposes.

(6) The circumstances where premises are not residential premises for the
purposes of that subsection include, in particular, where a person carries on a
business from the premises.

Now, how is this going to work ? Who is going to police what is a solely residential address, and what isn't ? Does the tool seller need to judge, the delivery driver, or who ? How do you tell a hobbyist from a sole trader working out of his home address, on the basis of the information a seller or courier has access to ?

 

[DTR]

You worry too much.......

Plausible deniability

Fair do’s

Kind Regards,
Dave
Customer Relations Dept.
Smiling Monkey Industries

 

[user22161]

Now, how is this going to work ? Who is going to police what is a solely residential address, and what isn't ? Does the tool seller need to judge, the delivery driver, or who ? How do you tell a hobbyist from a sole trader working out of his home address, on the basis of the information a seller or courier has access to ?

OK, I'll give you an example. My old outboard engine packed up and I wanted a new 2 stroke one, which can't be sold for leisure use within the EU. I had to provide the retailer and national distributor with copies of invoices from marine trade suppliers to prove I am a commercial user and I had to sign a declaration (to cover their backsides) that use would be solely commercial and wouldn't resell to anyone who isn't.

Suppliers of bladed items will need to cover their backsides or face what could be stiff fines so, it appears they have two options - 1. deliver to click and collect locations such as Argos where age can be verified or, 2. satisfy themselves that your address is business premises or, you are working from home.

Chances are, everyone here has (or has access to) a printer. Think constructively, letterheads are very easy to produce and, Joe Bloggs Joiner/Cabinet maker/Plumber/Painter etc. is an accurate description of what you do, even though just as a hobby.

 

[Tasky]

Think constructively, letterheads are very easy to produce and, Joe Bloggs Joiner/Cabinet maker/Plumber/Painter etc. is an accurate description of what you do, even though just as a hobby.

"Lifestyle woodworker"?

 

[Just4Fun]

Joe Bloggs Joiner/Cabinet maker/Plumber/Painter etc. is an accurate description of what you do, even though just as a hobby.

That might be true and you might argue that as justification for a letterhead, but to enter the same information in the "Business name" field of an online order form could be a lie if you really don't trade. Does the proposed legislation have anything to say about customers who incorrectly pass themselves off as a company or business/sole trader?

 

[Tasky]

but to enter the same information in the "Business name" field of an online order form could be a lie if you really don't trade.

Don't trade, then. Just spend a few quid to register the company name.

 

[user22161]

Does the proposed legislation have anything to say about customers who incorrectly pass themselves off as a company or business/sole trader?

Not that I'm aware of, unless I've missed something, the legislation is aimed at sellers, not buyers. It's not an offense for you to order (say) a knife or, take delivery of it but, it's an offence for the seller not to take all laid down steps to ensure you meet the qualifications for the purchase and up to the you to convince them - as far as I'm concerned by any means available. Living in N Wales, I've no intention of driving many miles to pick up a chisel or a planer blade.

 

[user22161]

but to enter the same information in the "Business name" field of an online order form could be a lie if you really don't trade.

Don't trade, then. Just spend a few quid to register the company name.

You don't need to register any trading name of form a company. Obviously, some people are worried about lying but who among us haven't at some time tried to screw trade prices out of electrical or plumbers merchants and the like by pretending to be trade?

 

[Tasky]

but who among us haven't at some time tried to screw trade prices out of electrical or plumbers merchants and the like by pretending to be trade?

Err..... me?

Felt sexually attracted to mice, sure.
Set fire to some great public building, sure.
Never tried to pretend I was trade, though...