Network Storage and Media Tanks etc???

[mahking51]

Hi All,
Really confused here with all this techie stuff!

My fairly high spec Dell desktop is in my upstairs office; I have a variety of secondary hard disks for my work stuff and backup etc, all fine and dandy.

I have a Netgear Router so that I can use my laptop around the house and it works ok in my downstairs living room.

What I want to do is install a large (2TB or 4TB) network attached drive upstairs in my office that will take all my DVD,s (200 ish); all my CD's and MP3's and all my photos.

If possible I want to use the RAID version that allows one disk to die without losing the data. (mirror??). This is not set in stone however.

I then wish to be able to access (stream?) these to what ever is needed in my living room so that I can view wirelessly them on my plasma screen (Panasonic Viera full 1080p HD). I think I need a 'media tank' whatever that is

There is also I believe an option whereby you can use the house mains to give you improved 'wireless' signal if needed. (Homeplug??)

The jargon surrounding the NAS etc is very baffling to me and I wonder if anyone could help me out here as to exactly what I need to achieve this.

I am quite prepared to pay for someone's time on the phone if that is the way to go. I always value a persons expertise and have no wish to take the p**s! I suspect this is not a particularly straight forward thing that I am asking.

I have attempted to copy a DVD into Windows Media Centre and run it from there but cannot even get that to play on the desktop machine.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[jlawrence]

OK, firstly:
NAS - network attached storage.
All that is is a server which exports various directories as 'drives' which can be mounted (attached) to any other machine on your network which has the appropriate permissions.
When it comes to streaming to a viera I believe there are a few limitations when it comes to resolution. Streaming HD doesn't (apparently) work - you'll need to check your manual.

I have a Viera but not one with the streaming interface.
What I do is:
Server (call it a NAS if you wish) in the office which stores videos and music (currently around 1TB worth). I export the various directories - music and video - as both nfs (*nix) and smb (windows) shares, which allows them to be mounted on any machine in the house.
The main network (wired) in the office is GigE, I have a couple of wireless access points and also use some homeplug units to extend the network to where I've no cables. The bandwidth of homeplug is limited so don't expect to stream to too many clients at once.
For displaying the video's and playing music from the server I use my laptop - with HDMI out. I'm in the process of building a small box for the lounge with a HDMI out so I don't need to use the laptop - will get it finished one of these days.

If you want to 'stream' HD content to the Viera then I think the best bet is via an additional box - ymmv.
I believe software wise you need to look for some that is dlna compliant. More than likely this won't be 'free' if you're a windows user. Take a look here for a comparison of some software.
Try and pick software that is capable of transcoding as this means you'll be able to change the type of file encoding so that it can be displayed by the device you choose. In order to transcode 'on the fly' you'll need quite a powerful box.

HTH a little.


ADDED:
Personally I'd go with a Linux solution but if you're not used to it then you'll struggle using it as a server.
As for drives, use the biggest you can afford.
I personally don't bother with RAID at home. For backing up the actual data (as opposed to operating system) I just have another box with 5TB of HDD's in there - it doesn't run permanently and only boots in order to take backups.

 

[mahking51]

Hi JL,
Thanks for the quick reply!
As I thought , sounds very technical indeed, :?

I have no need or desire to stream High Definition form PC to telly, just want to be able to play DVD,s, play music and view my photos, while sitting in the living room in front of the box.
I belive that it is possible to bring up a library of all your DVD/CD covers onscreen and then pick one to play, likewise with photo albums and also play/view internet TV UTube etc.

A lot of your reply goes way over my head I am afraid, but it does not sound easy
Cheers,
Martin

 

[jlawrence]

Whatever you think about HD at the moment will change over the next few years.
I think it likely that a lot of things you down load in a years time will be HD.

It's not as complicated as it sounds. In reality it's just a case of buy a box, install the software and plug everything into the network.

 

[mahking51]

Hi JL
I did not mean to imply anything against HiDef, I love my SKY+ box and always watch in HD if possible.
Re my problem I guess it is that there seem to be so many conflicting opinions in the mags etc about which NAS drive to go for, which way to install the bits and so on; I really need an ABC type aid to get going.
Some say to use an XBox at the TV end, all very confusing.
Martin

 

[RogerS]

.....
Some say to use an XBox at the TV end, all very confusing.
Martin

I looked into this in another thread particularly as it seemed to me that i could use some software on the xbox that made it think my Mac was a windows media server and my impression was that I could access and browse stuff from the mac by using the xbox plugged into the TV and, of course, viewing stuff there.

Then I realised that the xbox isn't available with iplayer AFAIK...but the Sony PS3 (playstation) has this and since we like the idea of using iplayer this is currently top of my list.

 

[wizer]

I know Trim has been looking into this....

Tho, you appear to be asking for two separate things. A server for mass file storage, with backup solution AND a The functionality to playback files on the tv. These are different things that can work together. The latter, you're looking at MythTV or Windows Media Centre.

I'm just nipping out, will continue later.

 

[mahking51]

Tom,
To try and clarify:

I already have adequate backup drives as USB and firewire remote drives, more than enough for my simple needs, my really important files like stock book and accounts package back up daily to two separate locations.

The purpose of the NAS is to hold all my media (and therefore quite large) files in one hopefully well organised location and allow them to be accessed (wirelessly??) from my living room TV.

To add reasoning for all this: at the moment I have to go into the hall, get on hands and knees to look at rows of DVD's stacked sideways on in a cupboard, mostly I have to use a head torch and get a crick in the neck!
Likewise I have to load pictures from the PC onto USB keys and then plug them into the TV. I cannot tell you how many brownie points will be scored with SWMBO if I can just get this bit done so she can browse whenever she wants. Same problem with drawers full of CD's; can never find that one track you want to listen to from the favourite armchair, have to go upstairs into the office where I can find it instantly as MP3.

I am very tempted by the Brennan JB7 for just this facility but if there is a more integrated way thats how I want to go.

www.brennan.co.uk

Some NAS units come as empty cases needing hard drives, some with drives - what are the best specs to aim for etc etc. RAID or not RAID?

The media centre of things at the TV end is a total mystery to me despite a lot of reading, so many conflicting opinions. Some of these also have internal drives, some do not, some can take Blu Ray drives and add that facility (a minor +).

Just need some clear advice on the options and pros and cons. I do not know anyone who has this type of system up and running, is it that new?
Cheers,
Martin[/url]

 

[RogerS]

......
I am very tempted by the Brennan JB7 for just this facility but if there is a more integrated way thats how I want to go.

www.brennan.co.uk

........
Martin

Not if most of your music is classical. Nor does it handle video AFAIK. Other than that, and you not being bothered by viewing your library on a rolling teensy display or in having to peck away ad nauseam when you want to enter the name of the CD or DVD that you want to listen to/view then not much wrong with it.

I think that access control is critical...being able to see what you have available and request it to play from the one keyboard and screen (TV) is vital.

 

[jlawrence]

I'll have a closer read through the rest of this thread in a minute and formulate a better answer - step by step if you want.
The xbox software I use (though not on an xbox) is fantastic.
It's called xbmc. I use it on my linux laptop to connect to my 'media store' on the big box in the office. It works that well (and easily) that swmbo could use it without instruction, which is the test of anything connected in the living room - it must be easy to use and shouldn't need instruction for the most simple of tasks, ie playing a video.
Personally I can cope with the MythTV interface but it's not to swmbo's liking. You can't go wrong with the xbox software and it comes in linux, windows, mac and xbox formats which means you can use it on just about anything you can think of.

 

[wizer]

Martin, stay away from the brennan thing. It's like stepping back in time. You're on the right tracks with what you need. I'm afraid I'm not up on this specific area, especially the TV software. I've heard people using an xBox for this, but on the face of it, it seems like a half pineappled solution. It seems to me, you are looking for the most trouble free solution. Linux is a big learning curve, even if you use a customised distro. If I get some time later, I'll do some googling for you. But you want to be looking at PVR software.

The NAS backup\storage thing is really rather straight forward. You just need either a PC or one of those dedicated units. Redundancy is up to you. If money is no option then get it, simply for the peace of mind. Otherwise, I assume you'll be keeping all the media, so you can re-do it if you get a failure. If you chose redundancy then RAID-5 (Striped with Parity) is normally the best to go for IMO.

 

[wizer]

One other thought Martin. I'd not rely on wireless for this. I just don't think it will be good enough for streaming reliably. If you can get a cable to it then all the better. Homeplugs is a system where you use your home electric circuit like a network circuit. Plug in a transmitter at the PC and a receiver at the TV and it's like having a continuous cable running between the two. There was a discussion about this recently if you want to search this site.

Have you seen these:

http://www.buffalotech.com/products/net ... ation-iii/

 

[jlawrence]

You are looking at one of two solutions.
1) dlna compliant server.
2) media storage server (effectively a nas) with a seperate frontend.

The first I'm not familiar with as my Viera isn't one of the dlna complaint ones - couldn't persuade swmbo that there was a need on the TV for a network connection .

Personally I'd go with option 2 as that then gives you more options.

Backend (NAS or whatever you want to call it): a big server (big as in plenty of drive space), processor isn't really that important unless you're wanting/needing to do on the fly transcoding. If building from scratch I'd go with a Core 2 Quad and appropriate motherboard. With regards to RAID, I wouldn't bother unless you've a hole burning in your pocket - decent SATA raid cards aren't overly cheap. You could use software raid but I have a feeling that might be beyond your current abilities (not being nasty here just realistic).

I don't know what 'out of the box' solutions there are for backends - any NAS would likely do the job you need.
For the frontend device I'd go with one of these with hdmi output.

A couple of homeplug AV connections would suffice for connecting the two together. You can, if you need to, stream video via a 802.11n connection - not ideal but it will work - wired is better but not at all convenient in most living rooms.

Before you buy, you need to think how you are going to get your media onto the NAS. That means you need to think about what format your stuff is in - no point having the biggest NAS in the world if you can't get stuff onto it. That means having the ability to read BR, DVD's, CD's, vhs ?, USB etc.
So long as you can plug USB drives in then you can plug in whatever type of external drive you want/need to.

Bluray is an absolute mine field as far as PC's are conerned. The key that you need to read the disks is enough to give enven someone who knows what they're doing a headache - from what I can work out both the software and drive need to match up. From speaking with a few people there's no guarantee (even in windows land) that software will work with every drive - this will change as more and more keys become 'known' and the ridiculous situation is got rid of.

For the front end I like (as I've said) xbmc. I advise you download the xbmc live and have a try of it on your laptop to see what you think.
You don't need full PVR software on the frontend box - unless you're thinking of using it to capture/pause/whatever a live feed.

 

[petermillard]

I have one of the smaller LaCie Cinema drives for taking movies etc... away when we're on hols - one of the bigger units - this one has on-board N-WiFi and ethernet - may do the job you're after.

The one I have (same software across the range AFAIK) makes iPhone-sized movies perfectly watchable on a 32" TV, though obviously "perfectly watchable" may well mean something different to you, so see if you can try one out first!

A friend has an AppleTV which has an very slick front end (just like "Front Row" on a Mac if you've seen one) but doesn't have much on-board storage as it's really designed to sync with your iTunes on another PC, so may not be what you want. Easy to set up though.

HTH Pete.

 

[wizer]

Have a look at Western Digital's WDTV box.

 

[wizer]

Can we get an idea of budget Martin?

 

[mahking51]

Tom,
Budget around £1000 would be about it I would think, nice to be a bit under.
Roger S,
I take your point about the JB7 Brennan unit, input and selection was the major drawback that I saw. Itwas for music only , not video.
Cheers,
martin

 

[wizer]

IMO you want something like this:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/video/Wes ... -WDTV-Live

http://www.trustedreviews.com/video/Asus-O--Play-HDP-R1

They are low cost, play direct from the network and have simple on screen functions. They haven't got tons of functionality, but if all you want to do it play video or listen to music, then they should be perfect. As you will be ripping all you media specifically for this purpose, then you should not have any problems with encoding. The Asus looks the better of the two, but there's not much in it.

If you really wanted to save money, then you could have all your storage on your PC and just buy a raid array device. I think, personally, I'd like a separate box plugged in serving files and handing the raid array.

To me, this should be prety simple to set up. You can make it more complicated if you like, but this will get your storage protected and your media to your TV.

 

[petermillard]

Nice front end on the WDTV - a lot nicer than my LaCie that's for sure - and cheap too. So, what are you going to spend the other 900 quid on Martin??

Edit:- Apart from the big external HD, obviously

Cheers, Pete

 

[wizer]

yep, I had no intention of doing anything like this 'til Martin Piped up. Now I think I'm going to buy the Asus