My new toy
- Thread starter martinka
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powertools
Established Member
Well that looks impressive but what is it exactly?
martinka
Established Member
PT, it's a Diamond. One of these. http://www.scrollsaws.com/SawReviews/diamond_saw.htm
I think the engineer who made them is sadly no longer with us.
It's a lovely machine, but it's BIG, with a 25" throat. The motor is very noisy compared to the Hegner, but that's probably it's age. It could do with two new belts so hopefully I can find some or figure out how to make some.
Martin.
I think the engineer who made them is sadly no longer with us.
It's a lovely machine, but it's BIG, with a 25" throat. The motor is very noisy compared to the Hegner, but that's probably it's age. It could do with two new belts so hopefully I can find some or figure out how to make some.
Martin.
Bryan Bennett
Established Member
Martin that is awesome,If I had something that big I would not be able to turn round in my workplace.I am jealous of the size of your workshop,I have the Hegner in the middle of the workplace and can reach the power sockets on the left and right walls,whilst sat on the seat.
Bryan
Bryan
scrimper
Established Member
I have one of these in regular use in my workshop (been using it today as it happens) I bought mine around 1988 directly from the maker Mr JD Woodward who is sadly no longer with us. I spoke to him on several occasions and found him to be very knowledgeable and most helpful. about 4 years after I bought it the variable control started playing up and he sent me mew electronics to fit without any charge.
It is a very good saw, one of it's attributes is that using special blade-holders it can take all kinds of blade inc hacksaw blades and broken bandsaw blades, 2 types of blade holders are supplied with the saw, normal are the universal open type that will take all manner of blade up to 12" long; as I mention above plus a special fretsaw blade holder with a closed hole entry type for standard fretsaw blades, these can be fitted with ones eyes closed! (i.e. the bottom of the blade can be fitted underthe table without looking.)
The saw is noisier than a Hegner due to the fact that it is fitted with a universal carbon brush type motor which can run very fast, the saw must be bolted down to a very heavy bench or stand. a balance weight is fitted and should be removed when the saw is bolted down as this will reduce the noise and vibration, (Doug Woodward told me that he only fitted the weight to help for when the saw was demonstrated in a tool dealers but that it is better without when bolted down)
I imagine that you have made a very good buy, if this saw was sold today it would be on a par with the Hegner at a similar price, I have my origional reciept in the workshop and if I remember correctly it cost me around £300 back in 1988.
If you need any info I would be glad to advise.
It is a very good saw, one of it's attributes is that using special blade-holders it can take all kinds of blade inc hacksaw blades and broken bandsaw blades, 2 types of blade holders are supplied with the saw, normal are the universal open type that will take all manner of blade up to 12" long; as I mention above plus a special fretsaw blade holder with a closed hole entry type for standard fretsaw blades, these can be fitted with ones eyes closed! (i.e. the bottom of the blade can be fitted underthe table without looking.)
The saw is noisier than a Hegner due to the fact that it is fitted with a universal carbon brush type motor which can run very fast, the saw must be bolted down to a very heavy bench or stand. a balance weight is fitted and should be removed when the saw is bolted down as this will reduce the noise and vibration, (Doug Woodward told me that he only fitted the weight to help for when the saw was demonstrated in a tool dealers but that it is better without when bolted down)
I imagine that you have made a very good buy, if this saw was sold today it would be on a par with the Hegner at a similar price, I have my origional reciept in the workshop and if I remember correctly it cost me around £300 back in 1988.
If you need any info I would be glad to advise.
Martin.
That looks like a serious piece of heavy duty kit, it looks to be on the similar lines to the American Hawk scroll saw :?: .
Link.
http://youtu.be/WhFQKScmvM0
Take care.
Chris R.
That looks like a serious piece of heavy duty kit, it looks to be on the similar lines to the American Hawk scroll saw :?: .
Link.
http://youtu.be/WhFQKScmvM0
Take care.
Chris R.
mjcann
Established Member
I have one of these, its been in the shed unused for years, recently brought into service. I am now getting the hang of it, but its noisy, Ive bolted it down but not a lot of improvement. A question for scrimper, the counter balance, is that the bar that is paralel to the bottom arm with a lump of steel welded on the end.
Martin
Martin
scrimper
Established Member
I don't know where the weight is ATM but from memory mine was a bar of heavy metal about 1" x 1/2" x approx 4" and fixed to the shaft behind the driving pulley on the RH side, if the saw is bolted down you don't need the weight fitted.mjcann":3k8t4awd said:
scrimper
Established Member
martinka":2qxdrwfn said:
Martin, belts should not be a problem unless yours is different to mine they are a stretchy type round rough surface belt, 2 are fitted. they are the same belt that was widely used on Hotpoint twin-tubs to drive the main spinner (not the pump belt which is smaller and thinner) they normally had a white paint spot on them hence we called them a white spot belt! also the old Hotpoint top loaders used a similar belt but with a red spot which was practically the same and would do just as well.
The belts do have a rough surface even when new to help with grip on round section pulleys.
If you have a local **electrical appliance repair shop near you they may well have them on their shelf or you can buy them on ebay.
John
** I mean a proper repair dealer not a retailers like Currys etc who will charge you double or won't be bothered to get one for you.
powertools
Established Member
I like that let us how you get on with it.
loftyhermes
Established Member
Nice buy Martin, you're really getting into this scrolling lark aren't you.
happy scrolling
Steve
happy scrolling
Steve
martinka
Established Member
Bryan, that's my car garage. When the car and motorbike are in there, there's no room at all, everything has to be shoved up to the bench. Having said that, I worked out of it as a motor mechanic for 25 years and learned to squeeze into, and work in, some very small spaces. 
Chris, the Hawk was sold here as the Record Power and someone on here bought one fairly recently. I came close to buying it myself but decided against it because of lack of space. So why did I buy this one? :roll:
Scrimper, you're a star! You have given me more info in a couple of posts than I have been able to find in 2 days searching. I'll see about removing the counterweight, but the saw is too long to fit on my bench so I have it clamped to a workmate clone at the moment.
Back again - I disconnected the counterweight and the workmate and saw went walkabout when I switched it on. Then I realised the Pitman arm for the counterweight was still on. I'll need to make a puller to remove the main pulley so I can get to the Pitman arm to remove it. I also found the bearing in that particular Pitman arm is very notchy, which wouldn't have been helping. I'll get back to it tomorrow.
Martin.
Chris, the Hawk was sold here as the Record Power and someone on here bought one fairly recently. I came close to buying it myself but decided against it because of lack of space. So why did I buy this one? :roll:
Scrimper, you're a star! You have given me more info in a couple of posts than I have been able to find in 2 days searching. I'll see about removing the counterweight, but the saw is too long to fit on my bench so I have it clamped to a workmate clone at the moment.
Back again - I disconnected the counterweight and the workmate and saw went walkabout when I switched it on. Then I realised the Pitman arm for the counterweight was still on. I'll need to make a puller to remove the main pulley so I can get to the Pitman arm to remove it. I also found the bearing in that particular Pitman arm is very notchy, which wouldn't have been helping. I'll get back to it tomorrow.
Martin.
scrimper
Established Member
Is yours the version with variable speed or is it a 2 speed only model? Reason is that at full power universal (carbon brush type) motors will run very fast indeed especially when they don't have a load on them whereas the induction type motor as fitted to the Hegner is much smoother and quieter.
If you do have the 2 speed version having a universal motor makes it simple to set up your own variable speed control whereas you cannot do that with the Hegners induction motor (it has to be a factory fitted option).
I have the variable version and it is much more pleasant to use with the speed turned down, on full power the Diamond runs very much faster than the Hegner at max and hence will vibrate one hell of a lot more!
I presume you do have the instructions for the saw?
FWIW the motor fitted to the Diamond was known as a Carter-Romford motor and was the same motor as fitted to the spin-dryer section of the Servis twin-tub. A few years ago I dismantled an old Servis twin-tub for scrapping but kept the spinner motor as a spare for my Diamond in case it ever packs up, with the demise of Twin-tubs I imagine they are difficult to obtain now.
(Yes you have guessed it! We do still have a Hoover Twin-Tub as a spare in case the auto packs up, it came in very useful in the 2007 Glos great flood when everyone's mains water was cut off for over 2 weeks!)
If you do have the 2 speed version having a universal motor makes it simple to set up your own variable speed control whereas you cannot do that with the Hegners induction motor (it has to be a factory fitted option).
I have the variable version and it is much more pleasant to use with the speed turned down, on full power the Diamond runs very much faster than the Hegner at max and hence will vibrate one hell of a lot more!
I presume you do have the instructions for the saw?
FWIW the motor fitted to the Diamond was known as a Carter-Romford motor and was the same motor as fitted to the spin-dryer section of the Servis twin-tub. A few years ago I dismantled an old Servis twin-tub for scrapping but kept the spinner motor as a spare for my Diamond in case it ever packs up, with the demise of Twin-tubs I imagine they are difficult to obtain now.
(Yes you have guessed it! We do still have a Hoover Twin-Tub as a spare in case the auto packs up, it came in very useful in the 2007 Glos great flood when everyone's mains water was cut off for over 2 weeks!)
martinka
Established Member
Mine is a variable speed, and I soon found out that slower is better. I don't have any instructions for the saw, just a spec sheet. If you have some and could scan me a copy it would be very much appreciated.
I'd guessed there were vac's and washing machines involved with this saw, especially the belts. I did have a quick look on ebay and spotted some that looked the same but there was no length given.
A friend who owned a washer and vac shop recently retired and closed his shop down as his son didn't want to take it on. I bet the skip outside his shop was full of belts.
Martin
I'd guessed there were vac's and washing machines involved with this saw, especially the belts. I did have a quick look on ebay and spotted some that looked the same but there was no length given.
A friend who owned a washer and vac shop recently retired and closed his shop down as his son didn't want to take it on. I bet the skip outside his shop was full of belts.
Martin
scrimper
Established Member
The instructions were very basic and were sort of hand draw diagrams and typewritten words, I have them in my workshop, as soon as I get time I will scan some for you.
I am pretty sure that the belt that fits the Diamond is the same one as was fitted to the Hotpoint 1450/1460 washing machine, the main spin drive belt, they are on ebay' as I have seen them they can be red, green or white spot, they are all about the same.
(There were 3 belts fitted to the Hotpoint twin-tubs, a Larger vee belt for the wash side, a stretch belt approx 5/16" in section for the main spin drive and a smaller 1/8" section stretch belt for the pump, it's the main spin drive one you want.) If you are going to buy a belt let me know first and I will take the side off my diamond and make sure that the Hotpoint belt fits first (I have a spare in my stock) so as not to waste your money. But I am 99% sure it will fit fine.
Probably best to check with a local spares shop before buying, some of the belts online are priced ridiculously high!
I am pretty sure that the belt that fits the Diamond is the same one as was fitted to the Hotpoint 1450/1460 washing machine, the main spin drive belt, they are on ebay' as I have seen them they can be red, green or white spot, they are all about the same.
(There were 3 belts fitted to the Hotpoint twin-tubs, a Larger vee belt for the wash side, a stretch belt approx 5/16" in section for the main spin drive and a smaller 1/8" section stretch belt for the pump, it's the main spin drive one you want.) If you are going to buy a belt let me know first and I will take the side off my diamond and make sure that the Hotpoint belt fits first (I have a spare in my stock) so as not to waste your money. But I am 99% sure it will fit fine.
Probably best to check with a local spares shop before buying, some of the belts online are priced ridiculously high!
martinka
Established Member
I found a green spot belt on ebay for £12.99 which seems a lot. The three local washer shops around here all closed down but I'll keep an eye out on the markets. I remember one stall that sold bags for older vac's, maybe they sell belts for vac's and washers too.
Aha! I found one for £6.99 with free delivery, so if you could check I'd appreciate it.
Martin.
Aha! I found one for £6.99 with free delivery, so if you could check I'd appreciate it.
Martin.
scrimper
Established Member
OK I have the side off and checked the belts, as I suggested mine is fitted with 2 white spot belts, these are the same as the white spot drive belt as fitted originally to Hotpoint twin-tub 1450/60 spinners, in my picture a spare Hotpoint belt is laying in front of the pulleys, it looks bigger in the pictures but it is a perfect fit. I don't actually have a green or red spot belt at hand but given that it replaces the white spot version and fits the Hotpoint 1450/60 I am 99.9% sure it will fit the same as a white spot one!
I am assuming that your pulleys are the same as mine with stretchy type belts fitted?
Am I right in that this is the belt you are looking at?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOTPOINT-STRE ... 232dcbd3f0
I am assuming that your pulleys are the same as mine with stretchy type belts fitted?
Am I right in that this is the belt you are looking at?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOTPOINT-STRE ... 232dcbd3f0
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martinka
Established Member
Yes, mine is almost identical, but the left pulley has holes The belt I found on ebay is a red spot. I sent an email asking if there is any difference.
If I run my motor at full speed, the right hand belt is hitting the bench, yet the belt looks and feels OK. I'll see if I can take a photo of it running.
I notice there is an oil hole in the top arm for the pivot - it was blocked when I got it - but in the bottom arm is an Allen screw in the same place. Any idea why?
How do you align the top and bottom clamps? Is there any easy way or is it trial and error?
Martin.
If I run my motor at full speed, the right hand belt is hitting the bench, yet the belt looks and feels OK. I'll see if I can take a photo of it running.
I notice there is an oil hole in the top arm for the pivot - it was blocked when I got it - but in the bottom arm is an Allen screw in the same place. Any idea why?
How do you align the top and bottom clamps? Is there any easy way or is it trial and error?
Martin.
martinka
Established Member
A couple of photos of the belt. The first shows the ghostly outline of the right side belt. The second, taken with flash, shows that it is the "white dot" or the joint, that is causing the problem. Swap the belts over and it's still the same. I'm not really surprised as the motor pulley is running at around 13,200RPM at full speed, with the saw running at around 1500SPM. When I have the saw on my steel bench, you can see the belt hitting the bench, a good inch from the pulley. As there is no way to tension the belts, I think a slightly shorter belt might cure the problem, but finding one the right length is yet another problem.
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scrimper
Established Member
TBH I don't understand this, the belt to the right is quite obviously miles too loose! What does that nut and washer do above the motor pulley? If you look at my picture there is not one on my machine. No adjustment is normally required for the belt as a stretch belt is used. I am sure that both belts were the same size But I can always check again to be 100% sure.
You may have difficulty finding a stretch belt of this type in a slightly smaller size the next size down that I know about is a pump belt that fits a Hoover Twin-tub it's section is the same as the white spot but it's diameter is quite a lot smaller and IMHO it will be far too tight on this machine, I don't know of a belt of this kind in-between the two sizes.
When both belts are off do they look to be the same only from your picture the RH one looks a lot more stretched?
Take both belts off and hold each side of the belt together and measure the length, do this for both belts if different, post the result here and I will measure mine to compare.
You may have difficulty finding a stretch belt of this type in a slightly smaller size the next size down that I know about is a pump belt that fits a Hoover Twin-tub it's section is the same as the white spot but it's diameter is quite a lot smaller and IMHO it will be far too tight on this machine, I don't know of a belt of this kind in-between the two sizes.
When both belts are off do they look to be the same only from your picture the RH one looks a lot more stretched?
Take both belts off and hold each side of the belt together and measure the length, do this for both belts if different, post the result here and I will measure mine to compare.
