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Message subject: Your topic has been deleted
From: Noel
Sent: Nov 03, 2012 4:56pm
To: vally bar
Message

Hi,

One of your topics called Machines for sale has been deleted

Reason for deleting your topic: As per board rules commercial sales are not allowed.

Please reply this message if you've got any further questions.
--------------

Well that's the reason I was given, so it would seem the rules are flexible dependent on who you are.
 
vally bar":1k39zf0k said:
Message subject: Your topic has been deleted
From: Noel
Sent: Nov 03, 2012 4:56pm
To: vally bar
Message

Hi,

One of your topics called Machines for sale has been deleted

Reason for deleting your topic: As per board rules commercial sales are not allowed.

Please reply this message if you've got any further questions.
--------------

Well that's the reason I was given, so it would seem the rules are flexible dependent on who you are.


vally bar":1k39zf0k said:
I have had surplus tools for sale removed because I earn my living as a woodworker (not selling machines or tools) work that one out I couldn't.

So you were selling commercially used tools rather than hobbyist tools then.
 
One rule I don't see the rationale for is the one that says you can't advertise for sale on this forum and, say, on eBay.

Nor do I see any harm in someone like vally bar, who makes a living from woodworking, selling the odd tool that is surplus to requirements. I would have thought members would benefit rather than being in the free-for-all at eBay.
 
Stu_2":gyrow2tk said:
I can't see what difference that makes?

Maybe a (subtle) difference in meaning.

Tools sold by an individual (hobbyist)
Tools sold by, or on behalf of, a company (possibly sole trader)
 
Stu_2":3ta7nczs said:
That's how I interpret it. Commercial would be tool or equipment sellers, not the tradesmen who use them.

+1

Tradesmen are the very people that contribute to this forum. They shouldn't be made to feel like lepers if they want to sell a surplus plane.
 
RogerS":1onfnuel said:
One rule I don't see the rationale for is the one that says you can't advertise for sale on this forum and, say, on eBay.

Nor do I see any harm in someone like vally bar, who makes a living from woodworking, selling the odd tool that is surplus to requirements. I would have thought members would benefit rather than being in the free-for-all at eBay.
I understand why this rule exists, and am pleased it does on here. It stops people (both us and eBay members) getting messed about. I've seen it turn messy on other forums.
 
One subtle difference that has raised itself in the past is commercial companies trying to trade their commercial equipment surpluses (with or without vat) for free on a volunteer run and privately funded forum aimed at helping others and sharing ideas and inspiration. Hence why some of the post number restrictions to reduce such spam were put in place.
Someone amongst the volunteer crew has from time to time make a judgement call based on previous forum history and what is perceived as pushing the boundaries of the rules, this is often done with the aid of internet searches of information in the public domain and a knowledge of several admin log records of passed events.

I personally can say that there are more instances of flexibility being applied than otherwise.
 
There is nothing stopping a commercial enterprise that has the ability to offset its expenses and tax liabilities from using the forum facilities for sales promotion, just don't expect to do it for free without contributing to the costs of running the forum.
 
I've used the sale board very rarely and see nothing wrong with the rules really and tbh if anyone wanted to flout them (I haven't btw), by listing on ebay as well then it's possibly unlikely that would be picked up if the seller didn't say so.

I'm a sole trader as well as a serious hobbyist woodworker, some of my tools are therefore used both privately and commercially and I'd be a bit peeved if I wanted to sell for example a plane or set of chisels and was stopped from doing so for that reason.
The mods are in a no win situation however and you can't please all of the people etc. as said, it's a free service to likeminded members, the kind of target audience advertisers pay millions to access and it's a free service to us so what's the problem!

cheers
Bob
 
Lons":p650c26x said:
..... by listing on ebay as well then it's possibly unlikely that would be picked up if the seller didn't say so.
.....

Don't you believe it. There are enough petty-minded people around who will go out of their way to 'out' on the open forum someone making an innocent mistake rather than sending them a PM.
 
Walney Col":7u1f9ptz said:
IMO the sales-related rules in particular require an unreasonable amount of research and/or memory, are not instinctive or obvious, are not in the best interest of the majority, and are routinely overlooked and/or not enforced presumable depending on who the poster is and who's on moderation duty.

In your opinion.

The rules are quite simple:
must have price
private only
no Ebay links.

As for the OP, no one is going to miss your future non-existent posts!
 
Message subject: Re: Your topic has been deleted
From: Noel
Sent: Nov 03, 2012 7:47pm
To: vally bar
Message

Hi, you're a business disposing of equipment. Please read the guidelines here:

market-place-guidelines-please-read-before-posting-28-10-12-t54359.html

and specifically item 1.

Thanks

Noel



vally bar wrote:
Please clarify a Comercial sale. I am a woodworker selling redundant and or surplus tools owned by myself.
I am not a dealer. Take a look at me at http://www.rushworth.uk.com
 
JohnPW":2vkrj77l said:
The rules are quite simple:
must have price
private only
no Ebay links.
They're not the rules.
These are the rules, or at least part of em...
Noel":2vkrj77l said:
It is in everybody's interests that the Market Place board runs as efficiently and orderly as possible. This will only happen if members read and adhere to our guidelines. The facility is totally free so please read the guidelines and post accordingly and do not abuse the service.
New members need a post count of at least 20 to create threads in the For Sale section.
Attempts to circumvent the above restrictions with gratuitous posts elsewhere will risk all such posts and the subsequent For Sale Post being removed.
As items move quickly within the For Sale board a member can bump such a thread back up to the top just once.
New members can use the Wanted section, but they will be under the restriction of not being able to reply to any PM’s they receive until they have made at least 3 genuine posts elsewhere.
Wanted listings will automatically be deleted after 20 days unless a Moderator receives a request to remove it earlier.

1 - Private posts only.
No commercial or business adverts, deliberate use of the section to offload surplus equipment, such as items purchased in job lots, wood stock purchases or family business surpluses will be considered as trading & not in the spirit of the facility. Although members comments about having obtained surplus stock of timber elsewhere on UKW are acceptable, (we all like to Gloat at times) wording such posts in a manner that indicates a test for viability to trade or possibility of selling via UKW threads will be treated in the same way as commercial posts in FS.

2 - Replies or enquiries.
Posts can be in the For Sale Section as long as they are directly related to technical clarification or via PM.

3- Relevant Posts Only.
If you have no genuine purchase interest in the item posted please just move on.
For instance, you would not supply comments or recommendations to local small adds, so please don’t bulk out FS threads with such posts.
If you feel a need to moan about the price or mention that the item comes free in a box of cornflakes do not do it here, go to http://www.grumpymoaners.co.uk
The marketplace will decide if the item offered has a realistic price.
If however you consider the post to be in breach of the rules then the Moderation Team would appreciate the use of the Report This Post facility. (Please do not post a thread entry; there is no guarantee that this will be seen)

4-Thread status.
Those placing adverts are required to update the status of their entry Title as soon at it changes to Sold. It is only fair to members that the availability of an item is obvious.

5 –Allowed Sales Posts.
Members may not submit items currently offered on other public sites such as eBay, Gumtree or sites of that nature or use UKW to promote or mention their current or future sales elsewhere. This includes digital and/or print media.
As a general rule an item or items that have been submitted to the For Sale board should not be entered concurrently elsewhere but a certain moderating tolerance may be in evidence at times.
Failure to adhere to these guidelines may result in sanctions against the member in question. Such posts detected or reported will be treated as spam in the first instance.

6 – Relevance of Items.
For Sale / Wanted items must be woodwork / tool / associated hobby related at moderators discretion.
No washing machines, black & white TVs, vintage champagne, pit ponies, German car polish or whatever you have lurking about at the back of the garage. If in doubt or believe an item has a real benefit potential for a member then contact a moderator for a decision.

7 -Descriptions.
Members should describe the item/s for sale or wanted to the best of their ability in their first post. Any pictures and information should also be within the post and should not be linked to another site other than tool sites etc to give readers some idea on the nature of what is being sold or wanted.

8 –Pricing.
No posting of For Sale items without a fixed price. Posts without a price will simply be deleted without warning or notification, as will any For Sale posts that are framed as an auction or masquerading as an auction of any description. "Best price" or "best offer" etc. or words or phrases to that effect will be treated as an auction and deleted.

9 – Member location.
Members posting For Sale or Wanted posts must have their location listed in their profile in enough detail to allow genuine assessment of distance required for collection travel, GB, UK, etc. is of no help to anyone.

10 –Images.
Supporting images should be provided with the opening post. Do not make a post and wait to see if there is interest before offering to post images. Either post all together or not at all. We do not allow posts that have such requests as "PM me with your email address for pictures" or similar. If you really want to sell your item you'll make the effort, not expect others to do so. Posts asking members to request pictures will be removed.
Our site can upload images from your HD so it should not be too difficult. There are guidance notes HERE.. If you have problems please post a question requesting assistance in uploading in the Site Suggestions/Comments board where somebody will assist you prior to your Market Place post.

11 – Ownership.
All items offered for sale must be the property of the seller or family member. Items offered for sale belonging to a friend, acquaintance or the postman's 3rd cousin once removed are not acceptable as are posts concerning sales, auctions or offers elsewhere. Such posts will be deleted without notification. This board was created solely for the use of our members as a means to dispose of surplus Workshop items and as a facility for members to find Workshop Equipement. If a member is in any doubt about posting please refer to a member of the moderating team.

12 – Responsibility.
The site does not accept responsibility for any issues that may arise through the gift or sale of an item. All members are advised to take whatever precautions are available to them regarding proof of delivery etc.

13 – Communication.
As in the rest of the site new members will not be able to send PM’s regarding posts in this section until their post count exceeds 3.

14 – Updates to Rules.
These guidelines may be updated and/or amended in the future; UKW places the onus on the membership to keep themselves up to date with the current guidelines.

Information Note:

Most members, old and new, have the decency and common sense to use the For Sale board as the sole means to sell or dispose of their Workshop tools and equipment. In the past an item was posted for sale and a member notified the seller that he would purchase the item and the seller accepted the offer. A short time later the seller reneged on the sale stating that the sale had been concluded on eBay. Further research indicated that the eBay sale had ended at 3pm and the item was posted for sale here at 11am the following morning. This is an example of how not to use our site and how to act like a total turnip head and therefore if any members that use the board also have their item/s listed elsewhere or has done so in the recent past the post will be deleted without notification and possible further action may be taken. This is in the obvious interests of our members and if anybody feels that a For Sale post may breach any of the guidelines please feel free to notify a Moderator or Report the Post.
Self regulation and protection of our interests is important.
Like I said, far too complicated and open to personal misinterpretation by poster OR moderator.

Col.
 
The problem is Col that the rules were implemented in the first place because of all the falling out that used to happen, so whilst you might not like them previous history meant they became necessary, it's a shame that we need them but the facts are we do.
 
Doug B":37waizxh said:
The problem is Col that the rules were implemented in the first place because of all the falling out that used to happen, so whilst you might not like them previous history meant they became necessary, it's a shame that we need them but the facts are we do.

But Doug, WoodworkUK doesn't have a list of For Sale rules, does it? And that seems to work just fine.
 
vally bar":3cq90r1w said:
One rule for selling Festool kids toys and another for the real thing.
vally bar":3cq90r1w said:
Hi all I am having a clear out of duplicated and not used machinery, all static machines are 3 phase and all are connected so any trial welcome.
All located in Liverpool at our works near Aintree Race course so just of the M57. Collection only we will assist with removal and have a fork lift available.
The sanders are 240 and I have 2 floor sanders and 1 edge sander both with very little use.
I have 5 of the 45% Porta nailers with hammers and 1 of the 90% nailer with hammer.
I also have a nearly new cardboard / plastics Baler I forgot to photograph
All prices are + vat!
Old heavy duty spindle with forward and reverse so ideal for ring work 1.1/4 spindle included are 2 sizes of ring fence 1 bonnet 2 spring clamps and the power feed so a complete spindle set up, I think I may have a ball race for this if so will include also. Recent motor rewind so will see most of us out
Price £1000.00
Wall saw Elcon 10 x 5 good saw owned by me from new still have brochure and original invoice parallel cut guide and fine fence adjustment
Price £3500.00
Large X cut Wadkin Bra this saw has + 600mm stroke so Ideal for worktops. includes the tables and the stop rail and 2 blades
Price £1000
Smaller X cut Wadkin Bra inc tables and at least 1 blade.
Price £800.00
Baler £1500.00 Single Phase
Floor sanders each
Price £350.00
Edge sander
Price £200.00
Porta nailer 45% each
Price £125.00
Porta nailer 90%
Price £175.00

Paul
Can only post 10 pics so will post others later

I think most members would have interpreted the above thread as being commercial!!
 
RogerS":x1hkhl6e said:
Doug B":x1hkhl6e said:
The problem is Col that the rules were implemented in the first place because of all the falling out that used to happen, so whilst you might not like them previous history meant they became necessary, it's a shame that we need them but the facts are we do.

But Doug, WoodworkUK doesn't have a list of For Sale rules, does it? And that seems to work just fine.

I really don't think the forums are comparable, the same problems did come up on both but are dealt with differently, here they came up with rules there they just abuse sellers :lol:
 
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