Motor help please

[ankledeep]

I have an axminster ws10 something spindlemoulder, would you believe 2mth over the year old, and Its got a problem with the motor.

its tripping th earth leakage trips. Now a bit of investigation revealed a shorted brown (phase) wire to earth, due to the fact it went through a hole in the chassis which is minus a grommet....ok fixed that.

switched on ...pop....earth trip STILL jumping off the wall....Ok says me lets get a meter on this...now, not withstanding that the supplied wireing diagram looks NOTHING like the reality of whats actually IN THERE, I isolated the motor wires of which there are 5

brown
black
blue
grey
green/yellow

so ok green yellow is perforce earth

it would appear after poking them with a meter set to resistance that brown and black are one winding of the motor, showing a (dc) resistance of 1.5 ohms

which leaves grey and blue as the other winding...which reads open circuit to with the meter. No surprises there since there is a capacitor(from the circuit diagram a start/run cap) in series with this winding

HOWEVER....BLUE is dead short to green yellow (earth)... reads 0.4 ohm, which is the same as the residual error on my meter with the probes shorted.

so....does the pannel agree that the likeliest culprit is the start run capacitor having failed short to earth.

as an extra, Grey is NOT short to earth......

 

[Myfordman]

Very unusual for a capacitor to fail short to earth as virtually all are plastic cased but look under the cover and see.
It could be a short in the centrifugal switch or the wiring.

 

[Andy RV]

Bob might be able to help you: url]http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1260[/url]

 

[rafezetter]

Contact axminster - it's a little known fact that regardless of retail and manufacturers warranties there is consumer law which requires anything to be fit for purpose for a reasonable length of time separate of warranty - more so if it's deemed to be a high value "higher quality" item. UK law supercedes any company provided warranty - and even covers for imports if the retailer has any presence in the UK even if it's just a dedicated website, if the price you paid was listed in pound sterling ONLY (not native price then sterling underneath), they are deemed to be selling in the UK and subject to all its retail laws.

A no name branded import item you might still get coverage for a while past the provided warranty, otherwise they would be subject to supplying deliberately faulty goods to increase sales. A branded item from a reputable dealer is expected to last a better than average time past the warranty.

Read this info paying special attention to the last paragraph:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/consumer-law-sale-of-goods

I'd not do any fiddling with it - or stop if you have, although you haven't invalidated the warranty as it's already run out - so they can't try the "you broke it by messing with it" approach.

I'd also mention that you are a member of several woodworking forums, and in any contact point them to this thread link - and tell them all correspondance from them will be copied into this thread for all to see - hopefully the probability of bad press to their very target market will make them think twice before giving you the runaround.

If they tell you to bugger off - contact trading standards soon as possible after that and make an official complaint. you can also use twitter / facebook to shame them - the more people who learn axminster are supplying goods that barely last a year the more they will jump.

If they do agree to do the work and fix it instead of replacing it - make sure you get another guarantee of workmanship and parts for replacements IN WRITING!!

If it's an item you use for an income you might also have a claim for loss of earnings - it depends how far you want to fight it.

Whatever you decide - stay steadfast and dig your heels in - they are a multimillion pound company and rely on people like us for continued business - they need reminding we won't be happy to be taken for idiots.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I would "yes and" the last post but with perhaps a little less........impact!

Axminster as I'm certain most will attest to on this site behave very well indeed as regards customer service. I myself have had at least 4 occasions over the years where something wasn't right and their behaviour was not only good...it was exemplary, a veritable model by which other big toolies should be judged in fact.

So just BEFORE you get all contractual on them and start quoting the sale of goods act, a simple friendly chat will probably see you right. I guess the trouble with entering an argument with all guns a-blazing is that the other party will just dig their heels in. Give them enough room to show how magnanimous they are....and they just might surprise you.
They've never let me down......not once.

 

[rafezetter]

heh ROB bob.. (that's catchy!) is right of course - softly softly first, then kick em inna fork if they get all "out of warranty" as they know full well 2 weeks out of warranty just won't stand up to scrutiny.

I tend to be a bit hard on retailers as too many hope you don't know the law and fob you off.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Absolutely. Know your rights and be prepared to wheel them out if necessary after giving them fair chance to do the right thing.

The thing is, we all know Axy, and I think they really are one of the good guys in the main. That's my personal exp anyway. I would be interested to see the op report back with their response in this case. This is an interesting one. I have to be honest, I'm not convinced the op does have any solid legal rights beyond warranty (at least not without considerable effort on their part). So axy's response to this will be interesting.

 

[ankledeep]

Well folks, Axi have once again lived up to their super reputation for customer care, having explained that although just out of warranty, the machine has so far only had about 50hrs max run time. then having explained what i had found viz the resistance readings, the very helpful chap in the technical department came to the same conclusion as I, that the start/run cap had failed to earth (according to the technical chap a common failure mode).He advised me to root out the cap from its black box on the motor ( no mean feat i can tell you due to having to move the monster to get to the back of it to remove the back plate) and let him know the "size" ie capacity (in microfarads) and they would then send me (FOC) a replacement which I can fit. I find this a most equitable arrangement since I am perfectly capable of carrying out this repair/replacement and dont recon it would be fair for them to have to send an engineer out to do such a simple task. So from me WELL DONE Axminster, once again they prove their customer care is A1

 

[Myfordman]

Do let us know how you get on.

 

[ankledeep]

Quick update, having managed to move the beast away from the wall it sits against, I removed the back panel to check on the capacitor "size" and found that in fact, it wasnt the cap at all, further tests with the trusty ohm meter proved it is a short to ground in the motor somewhere. Got back to Axi with this info and..........a new motor will be with me tomorrow or wednesday...

No need ever to stand on me soapbox, no need to whinge or play merry hell, Just told em as I said above although it was a couple of months out of warranty it had only had about 50hrs run time in that period and there was not even the slightest hint of a problem, they agreed to send said motor FOC immediately.

I recon they deserve a huge hurrah for that customer service =D>

 

[ankledeep]

another update...old motor out, awaiting delivery of new motor.

removing the old motor was quite simple, I must admit I expected a day long wrestling match, but no, wind the carriage down to its lowest limit, undo 2 bolts and disconnect wireing (having taken notes of where the wires went) lift it upwards and swing the bottom outwards to the back and out she came...temove capscrew in motor shaft and remove one piece pully set with gear pullers....job done 45 mins max

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Brilliant....I'm glad my sparkling review of Axy was vindicated. Like I said...they've never once let me down.

 

[ankledeep]

New motor arrived today. another 45 mins and back up and running, finished the lengths of t&g i was making on it as a check...all good