More (yawn) bandsaw questions...

[julianf]

Im sorry - bandsaw setup is all over the archives (i have looked) but still im unsure.

I have a warco 14 bandsaw. Same unit as branded under jet, nutool, etc.

It rips in pretty straight lines (which is what i want) but those lines are at an angle to the table.

I suspect this has to do with the blade being too far forward of the top wheel crown, however, if i tilt the blade further back, it starts to rub against the back of the wheel enclosure. I dont know if the unit has taken a knock at some point prior to my ownership, or if it was always like that.

This is a saw (not mine) just to illustrate -

The top of the wheel starts to scuff the inside of the cover, as the blade is tilted to track the blade further back.

Im wondering about taking off the guard, and shimming it so as it tilts, but...


My real question is as to rip fences.

Do the cheap ones have adjustment to make them parallel to the blade in the direction of cut, or is it just assumed that the front edge of the table will be perpendicular to the cut?

Ie if i dont resolve the issue, can i just set up the rip fence parallel to the blade, rather than the leading edge of the table?


I was looking at the cheap axminster one (£15 or so) -

....but it looks like the mounting to the table is all wrong for my saw anyhow.


Price then jumps to £100 for one of these -

...i really wasnt wanting to spend that much.


But am i understanding the crown issue. Id have thought that if i run the blade further back, the angle will change, but is this so insignificant that i will still need to set the fence at an angle to the table?

Thank you.

 

[Ttrees]

Hello
If your top wheel is scuffing the cabinet, the blade is too long
Get Ian at tuffsaws to make you one up slightly shorter.
I'd just use as is with the door off if that's the only thing touching/fouling
Scrap above statement about longer blade if its just a matter of adjustment with the top wheel though.

If you are getting straight cuts, and nothing is gonna cause problems
keep it as is and adjust the table to be 90 both ways to the blade.

Don't bother with a fence on these small machines
this is not a tool for ripping accurately, for that, you need a bigger machine.
Might be a contender though, for that different take on the fence I posted a few days ago.
I'd say this could be easy enough to make.

I would just use it freehand though
Good luck

 

[sunnybob]

according to t'internet, a wm14 is a metal milling machine.

To help we need to know EXACTLY what machine you have.

If the top wheel is hitting the top of the enclosure, then your blade is too long. Once you have a blade that will tighten without the top wheel fouling the cabinet, you should tighten it enough that you can barely turn the blade almost 90 degrees at the table , by hand.
then do the flutter test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDo ... Woodworker
Then adjust the table to be square to the blade in both directions.

 

[Bodgers]

Let's try making it through the thread without THAT video

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[julianf]

Sorry for the slow reply.

The bandsaw is a warco sw-1405, however, as stated, its the same (in most but not all ways) to the Jet JWBS-14OS (jet manual here - http://content.jettools.com/assets/manu ... man_EN.pdf )

The main difference is the warco has a gear box for slow speed metal work.

Anyway, my initial post was misunderstood - the wheel is not rubbing at the top, but at the side. Its not tensioning the blade that causes rubbing, its tilting the top wheel for tracking.

At furthest travel before the wheel starts rubbing, the blade tracks about central to the wheel, whilst i understand that the base of the gullet (?) of the blade should be central. So im not miles out.

 

[Ttrees]

Guessing this machine has crowned tires ?
This needs clarification before a usefull answer.
The bandsaw is possibly quite different than the Jet machine you refer to also, as small changes
have big impacts on bandsaws

Tom

 

[sunnybob]

The gullet in the middle of the tyre is a guide, not all machines or all blades will track comfortably like that.
If you can get the blade to to track consistantly then youre half way there.
Blade "drift" can be accounted for and eliminated with other methods.

Get the tension right, and cut some wood (find a long piece of scrap, draw a pencil line down the middle, and see if you can cut along the line freehand, and report back what happens.

 

[julianf]

It's got blue polyurethane ones from bandsaws warehouse, or whatever that eBay seller from the states is called. I assumed they were crowned, but that may well be an incorrect assumption!

 

[CHJ]

Is this with all blades or only one.

If a blade is worn on one side more than another then it will drift to the side when cutting.

For instance a couple of days ago I caught the side of a blade on a hidden nail stub in a laminated piece of wood, it took enough off the sides of the teeth on one side to render it unusable for straight cuts and had to be scrapped.

Make sure you check for straight cutting with a known new blade, set up to run at right angles with the table in the for-aft (Z) direction before you adjust anything on the machine in the (X-Y) lateral direction to align any mitre guide with the blade/cut.

 

[julianf]

Two new blades from tuffsaws. Blades seem to cut straight, just not in any way parallel to the table.

I'll do the suggested test on a bit of scrap today.

 

[sunnybob]

If you can cut straight down the length of a piece of wood, then the blade is fine.
When you get half way along the wood, just stop, hold the wood in place and turn the saw off. Then you can study how far out of true the piece of wood is in relation to the fence.
If its a lot, then experiment with the blade tracking. As you move the blade forwards and back on the wheel the tracking will alter. make VERY small adjustments each time, making sure you move the bearings as well each time.

Its a slow process, but once sorted you can mark how far back that blade is from the edge of the wheel and then each time you swap blades, you can put it back in the same place.

I have a piece of paper taped to the back of the saw with the spacing measurements for each different blade.

If its only a little out, there is normally a fine adjustment on the fence.

 

[Lazurus]

In my experience you will be very luck to get a blade that cuts parallel to the fence or the table, and as stated above when you change the blade the next will be out. Get the wheels coplanar tracked ie in line with a straight edge top to bottom, the blade will track itself to the best spot, this ensures everything is running parralell with the wheels and blade.

I then simply plane an edge of scrap wood, mark a parallel line some 25mm in, cut halfway, then adjust my fence to the planed edge, this only takes a few seconds and I can then cut parallel to the fence every time right down to veneer thickness, and mine is not a high end saw by any means. I would urge any one to read Band Saw Handbookby Mark Duginske it covers everything and is easier to do than explain.

 

[Ttrees]

Did the saw originally have crowned tires?
Strange the saw's top wheel is canting forward so much.

I would follow Lazurus's advice if you want the top wheel to hopefully
not rub against the cabinet.

Afterwards, set the fence parallel to the table slot and adjust the table for
drift
I doubt you will be able to get a machine of that size to be able to reference off the fence though.
worth a try I suppose
Good luck

 

[julianf]

Hello
If your top wheel is scuffing the cabinet, the blade is too long
Get Ian at tuffsaws to make you one up slightly shorter.
I'd just use as is with the door off if that's the only thing touching/fouling
Scrap above statement about longer blade if its just a matter of adjustment with the top wheel though.

If you are getting straight cuts, and nothing is gonna cause problems
keep it as is and adjust the table to be 90 both ways to the blade.

Don't bother with a fence on these small machines
this is not a tool for ripping accurately, for that, you need a bigger machine.
Might be a contender though, for that different take on the fence I posted a few days ago.
I'd say this could be easy enough to make.

I would just use it freehand though
Good luck

Was it you who posted this one -
https://youtu.be/0EVHAdlSAvg

If so, that is the same saw (again, pretty much) that I have, and the chap seems to be ripping ok on it.

 

[Ttrees]

It was a different video but the same device, in which he is resawing in my view,
I will stand corrected on it if need be, only making controversial statement for clarification.
I don't understand why this device seems to work though.
I've only seen one person resawing well with a regular style fence on a small saw
Whom is Todd Stock dong so on a small Delta machine
I dont know if I could find the piccy as he left a forum he frequented, and took all his posts with him.
I'm rooting for you though.
I cant get my Elektra Beckum 315 to rip accurately using the fence, It drifts both directions
(same setup, at the same time) ripping (not resawing)some jointed pallet wood.
It seems this was always a problem on this machine as the jacking bolts have been welded up previously.
I dare not overtension as the mechanism is a skinny bit of threadbar, and I dont fancy figuring
out how to upgrade it, no need to anyway, as I have a large machine.

You may find that your machine has a beefier frame (thickness of plate) than the Jet shown
(hopefully), as its never ever an undesirable feature on a smaller machine, only becomes a factor
when you look at these Goliath Wadkins and such.
Frame deflection makes a difference if your tensioning system is up to it.

As advised earlier to get the wheels coplanar
The wood whisperer has a video on coplanar wheels and setup if you can bear it.
I found it quite useful when new to bandsaws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JowHmdihl-Q

Good luck

Tom

 

[julianf]

This is where the wheel is rubbing -

I have now shimmed the base of the cover to angle it away slightly.

This is an example of the results i am getting with a simple make-shift fence -

Im guessing that is not so bad. The thin section in the photo was cut both sides using the bandsaw.

I think, probably, i would do better with a table saw for what im wanting to do, but i dont have one, so i must use the bandsaw anyway!

 

[Ttrees]

Looks like you've got some work to do with those tires, as your machine is blowing out the bottom
of the work.
Get the tracking right first, so that the back of your top wheel is not rubbing
I.e guides backed all the way out
There should be no movement on the blade, so you can set the guides real close without touching.
Its not great practice to adjust tracking with full tension.

This could be a problem with the lower wheel side to side adjustment.
If you choose to try and see, make sure you remember those measurements you made
I.e the location of the jacking bolts as you could spend a bit of faffing around otherwise.


Are those tires fixed as in glued, (hairspray for urethane tires works as a glue BTW)
or are can you lift them off the wheel....
If so, making a judgement on your own terms of how fragile those tires are
you might choose to try and fix the problem.
If the tires look to be ok condition, as in no mad deep cuts into the tire, or other
I would get a small dowel to get under the tire and equalise the stretch on the tire.
Look up this video ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUK6RmpE28k
.....................................................................................
Sorry the rest is referring to rubber tires, I'm tired too.
I wont bother deleting though unless asked so



You could dress them if they're RUBBER and glued on
with the side of a lapped plane iron, Beware, you can split the tire if you just whang that plane iron
into the cut..It needs to be gradually increased and leaning away from the tire like a
posh scraper plane.
The block of wood gets rotated a smidge, the plane iron gets no adjustment on the block.
NOT TOO MUCH ROTATION!!!
Get a cut off of ply or whatever to cover the machine base from falling tools DAMHIK
as it will chip your paint job.
This tire was dressed rotating the wheels by hand.

This advice is a bit ahead of time however

 

[Ttrees]

Whats the clamp behind the guides for ?
The guidepost rubbing aswell?

 

[julianf]

Tyres are new.

Theyre a tight stretch fit, no glue. I went round them a few times after fitting with a roller under the tyre to equalise the tension on them.

The clamp is because someone in the past has overtightened the fixing for the guide, and cracked the casting. Clamp is holding the guide (forward back adjustment). I may have found a replacement, but im not sure yet.

I dont understand the guidepost rubbing question? I dont think anything else is rubbing now that ive shimmed the top half of the case.

Ive just watched the video, and that is eactly what i did with the roller. My roller was smaler (about 10mm dia) but otherwise the same.

Again the tracking seems ok now - no movement back or forwards on the wheel as it rotates.

Ive watched no end of youtube vids on tensioning, and am still unsure. I mean deflection when pushing on the blade is so subjective - it depends how hard you push it.

 

[sunnybob]

Just about everything to do with a bandsaw is subjective.
what works for a dozen other people is not necessarily going to work for you.
Focus entirely on the results you achieve, NOT too much on the positioning of things.

There are two quick ways of checking tension.
Use finger and thumb at the blade 2" above the table, and rotate the blade almost 90 degrees. If you pass 90 its too loose. If you cant turn it its too tight.
Open the top case and "ping" the blade like a guitar string half way between where it emerges from the frame and the wheel. If its too loose it will reverb and sound bad. a nice clear note shows you are close, a high pitched "ting" is too tight.